Global DEI Talent Officer
SimmieRay Niang-Dinkins (SR) 0:02 The reality is that executive leaders are truly critical to ensuring the corporate responsibility to diversity is not lost in the fray of national politics, our presidents, CEOs and directors, it’s important for them to challenge themselves as well. It’s important for them to really be vocal, not only, I mean, from a from a top down perspective, that this is a corporate priority. This is a corporate priority, because not only is it good for business, but the most important things. It’s right for business. It is our responsibility as leaders to make sure that all communities are represented are represented within our institutions. So the chain the challenge is challenging those middle managers to make sure that they themselves are keeping in mind the need for us to have diverse workforces and dialogue that celebrates diversity, and celebrates the need to have inclusive thought.
Jolene Mei (JM) 1:10 Hello, everyone. This is JOLENE MEI, your host for the DIVERSEEK podcast, where we talk with real people doing real work in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space. If you want to explore what people are doing right, what positive impacts are happening or even how positive changes can be done. You’re in the right place. We welcome you to join us.
Today we have SimmieRay Niang-Dinkins with us. SimmieRay is the global DEI talent officer at the IFC or International Finance Corporation. He is passionate about creating opportunities for underrepresented communities see me Ray is a strategic corporate, professional and consultant with over 13 years of experience and human resources across HR management, HR operations and organizational development and recruitment and talent acquisition. He is a self starter, detail oriented and expert team builder and trusted management and leadership advisor who is motivated to engage, inspire and empower confident results driven individuals see me Ray is a multifaceted professional with a strong business acumen at all levels of operations and approaches his work with a global perspective. Others have described him as possessing standout qualities in his passion for people is purpose driven and genuinely cares about the impact on people see me Ray has an encouraging and motivational leadership style that inspires individuals to reach their full potential. Also see me Ray is an excellent singer. And he’ll tell you more about that later. Disclaimer please note all statements made by CB re during the podcasts are silly his own and do not express the views or opinions of his employer. So welcome Signore. Tell us more a little bit about that thinking there.
SR 2:51 Yeah, you know, so I’ve actually been singing my entire life. So I just enjoy, you know, being able to share and kind of express, you know, my internal energy in the moment, right. And I think I’m able to do that through song. And it’s one of the things that I have found in taking that as a as a hobby, and in some respect, sort of a secondary career almost as well, because sometimes some things I get paid for, it’s a really fun and exciting, you know, gift of mine, I would say that I enjoyed,
JM 3:20 I love that, you know, it makes it even better when you get paid for what you love to do. You know? Well, thank you so much for sharing that part about yourself. I wanted to give you space to share anything I missed about your background, or how you ended up where you are today. In your career,
SR 3:33 I think you provided a really good synopsis it’s kind of summary of career I think in total, you know, I do take, you know, really a lot of pride in working in human resources. And I have had that goal since I was in undergrad when I started my very first internship in as a freshman as a human resource intern. So during that time, I just decided that this was the career track that I wanted to go to go on and have stayed somewhere in the Human Resources arena, every sense, whether it was programs oriented, or change management oriented, or whether it was HR operations or function, sort of oriented type type of roles. So that’s kind of how it really started. And prior to having been in human resources that entire time, I decided after I completed my master’s degree, my first master’s degree rather than I wanted to, you know, do my own thing, in a way. So I ended up starting a consulting firm doing HR consulting, and business advisory for organizations from a global sort of perspective. So I’ve done work in a number of countries all around the world in human resource consulting. And as a result, I think that has really spearheaded me to be a frontline candidate, I guess for the current role that I’m in and having been brought on to serve within the World Bank Group, specifically the international finance Corp. abrasion. So that’s how I ended up here. And it’s really kind of what I’ve always done, but just for an organization now, it’s quite a fun row.
JM 5:08 Yeah, thank you for sharing more about your background and experience. Because I think for me, as we’re going to be talking about today’s topic, which is we are going to be discussing, again, post Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action. How, how should we move forward through that right now, we’re recording this in 2024. But I feel like it’s just so important to hear your background, because I think what I appreciate is, you know, talking about this topic, but from different points of view, different lived experiences. So I’m excited to hear and learn from you from that point of view with your HR experience and your current experiences as well. So on that note, you know, I wanted to just ask you, what was your initial reaction to the Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action last year? I think it was in June, right in the summertime and 2023. So what was your initial reaction then? And how does it compare to your current views?
SR 5:57 I think my reaction honestly, a part of me was not 100% surprised if I’m just being quite frank here, right. Part of me was not 100% Surprised, given the sort of political nature of the issue in many respects. But it’s truly not a political issue. Right. I view di as a as more of a human rights and equality type of issue. Right. And so I think that when I heard of it initially, and the decision that came down from the court, I was actually quite, you know, I don’t know, I was really just kind of taken aback at the fact that it actually happened that they actually decided to say, right, in layman’s terms here, this is not appropriate, because that’s essentially what was, you know, what, what was said is that, you know, you can’t reach out to underrepresented communities, and make the effort to recruit or find talent in these underrepresented communities. That’s essentially what I heard as an individual of an underrepresented, you know, community being African American. And so I was really a bit stunned and hurt by it, I think that it has certainly influenced my perspective, if you will, on how to be more strategic in making sure that underrepresented communities are at the forefront of my work, and always top of mind, because there has been sort of the, you know, I would say handcuffing of institutions, like, institutions of higher learning. So that now it’s almost impossible for them to really make the efforts that are required or needed rather, to be able to find talent from underrepresented communities to be able to support and attract to their institution. So
JM 7:47 yeah, completely. And, uh, you know, I appreciate you just sharing how it made you feel, you know, because I think it’s so often that I think in these spaces that are more professional, I feel like it’s easy to skip over saying that made me feel this way. But instead, like, it’s easy to just jump over that and just say, well, this is what we’re gonna do now, right now. And I think it’s important to stop pause and like, wait, I’m a person, like, let’s like, figure that out. And then like, Okay, what, what then after that, like, what are we going to do about it together kind of thing. So I appreciate you bringing all that all that side in your response, you know, and something else, you know, just for those who don’t know about the affirmative action ruling that primarily affected institutions and the on the educational or university level of, you know, considering race as part of admissions criteria. And, you know, that was done, you know, mostly, historically, we’ve considered different identities and identifiers, so that we can provide more equity. It’s really about equity. Right? I think people confuse it more about like, diversity, that’s part of it. But if we’re really trying to make it more equitable, so everybody has a fair chance, you know, again, I’m really excited to hear your perspective, having a background in HR and now in talent management, or talent acquisition, because that’s, you know, at the employer level, right. So yeah, just curious to hear what you have to say for that. But before any of that, are there any historical or current stats or data points that you’d like to acknowledge? Before we get into today’s conversation? I know, you’ve mentioned before, like kind of backwards trends in institutions. So I wanted to make sure to give you space for that
SR 9:14 the main sort of thing has been just looking at some of the institutions of higher learning that has, in some respects, done this very thing excluding race as a potential category, right with regards to surveying whether or not an individual should be admitted to a university. And it’s not to say that, that they are admitted because of their race, that is to say that they meet all of these qualifications, metrics, and compete with the talent, but also, given the fact that we have an institution of higher learning that clearly is predominantly one particular group over another. It would make more sense to say oh, we should probably ask heavily weighed the fact that this individual is from a diverse community relative to race or ethnic origin. Want to say that it was the University of California, or perhaps maybe the University of Southern California, but certainly I need to confirm that is that when race was was excluded from these things to be considered as part of the totality of admission, as a result of that, in the years that posed, that decision, has led to the decline and a decrease of underrepresented communities, such as African American, Hispanic Americans as well right within the institution. And that’s because of course, these individuals from these institutions are within these communities, rather, you know, in the various communities that they are in whether they be underfunded, the schools they’re in or underfunded, or whatever it might be, they are not given the same exposure to instead institutions of higher learning, such as some of the more prominent institutions out there. And so as a result, they don’t apply for those schools. They don’t know that those schools, you know, exist, right, all these different sorts of, you know, realities that are faced relative to that really goes back to the marginalization of communities, and not having the kind of resources that are needed to be able to expose them to institutions, you know, like the Harvard right of the world, I think that is probably one of the biggest, and unfortunately, I don’t have the stats in front of me. But I do recall the backwards trend, if you will, in recruiting diverse talent and diverse students in these institutions once they have went ahead and ruled out race as an identifier for that. And I know not to make this a long response. But I’ll just also add quickly, this wasn’t even a ruling that excluded all diversity indicators or characteristics. It was solely race, you see. So one of the major identifiers in diversity with regards to American culture and American society, is the very thing that was reversed in this ruling. So I think that is key to keep in mind and to know. And so it just speaks to the continued marginalization of African Americans and underrepresented individuals by race and ethnicity in this country, since its inception. Great
JM 12:29 points, great points. And you know, when I was listening to you, I was thinking for me, you know, race is one of the most difficult things to discuss, and to teach about because it can elicit, you know, all these types of perspectives and stuff like that. And I feel like, for me, what was what made me kind of feel sad about it is that, as you said, it’s just about race. And it’s like, okay, so what does that mean about how we’re going to continue teaching about race? Also, I wanted to ask for you, I know, we majorly talked about at the higher institutional level. And at your level, I wanted to ask, like, one or maybe two ways that you’ve made shifts in your approach in your work, I know working in talent acquisition, just curious,
SR 13:07 well, you know, the good thing about the space that I’m in, and also not being truly an American institution, per se, right, so we’re a multinational institution. So we’re kind of in, you know, for lack of a better expression, kind of above the Supreme Court, sort of, you know, ruling in a way with regards to how we, you know, approach the universities, how universities engage us may be obviously a bit different, right. But when we’re given sort of the platform or the podium, we have the luxury of expressing our desire for diverse talent, by race, ethnicity, nationality, you know, shape, size, diversity of thought, diversity and educational institutions. So I think for me, what it has really made me do is really be more vocal about the fact that this is important for us. Okay. So this is important for us as an institution. This is important to us, not only as an institution from a business perspective, but it’s critically important to us from a cultural perspective in our institution as well, making sure that individuals have a sense of belonging within the institution by having individuals in this institution that looks like them, and that, you know, they can share community with right and they can find support or encouragement through right because, yes, we are, you know, at the World Bank Group, and again, specifically IFC, we are extremely diverse, and I I relish at the fact that we are so diverse, it is a highlight of my professional career because it is the most diverse organization I’ve ever worked for. And I have bragged about the fact that I believe that our institute Should highlights or is the standard for diversity within institutions, right? It should be the model that all institutions look to become as diverse as our organization. But I say that also keeping in mind that even though we are the bar, right, we are the standard, we also still look for more ways to be even more diverse. What are the underrepresented areas that we have within our institution? And how can we build on those particular communities as well, whether they’re LGBTQ plus, whether they are African American, whether they are by nationality, and that sort of thing, whether it is gender based, right, whether it is, you know, male, female, or, you know, other, right, perhaps maybe gender identifier that we currently do not have within our institution, whoever the case may be? How do we reach out to these individuals to express that our institution is about bringing the world together not just in creating a sustainable world sustainable future for for individuals, both by boosting shared prosperity, and reducing global poverty on a livable planet, but also in living together and in harmony, and bringing together all these different perspectives and ideas, to really create a more robust organization that gets the job done on a global on a global scale, we do that by reaching out to every single community, and by making sure that we have a presence in every single community, right. So I think for me, there is not really more of a change per se, just an amplification of what we’ve already been doing. And you know, making sure to be more aggressive, and letting universities know, we’re looking for diversity, we’re looking for ethnic diversity, racial diversity, gender diversity, diversity of thought, perspectives, all these things, so that we can build a more competitive institution on a global scale.
JM 17:05 Hello, listeners, time for a quick break to give your brain a quick rest. If you have not done so already, and would like to support our mission, please follow our podcast, leave a review, or share this episode with someone you think would enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening in. And let’s get back to the conversation. Yeah, I love that. I love that you broke down all the different layers of diversity, including the diversity of thought I think people do forget about that sometimes as well. And I also appreciated how your answer answered that question by saying, we’re going to continue to focus on the big picture. But just with that added awareness to reaching out to every community, you know, so that was great to hear. And I know earlier where I was talking about, like how we teach about race, but I wanted to actually talk about how we teach about equity with you. So from your role working in talent acquisition, as an overall leader, I know that you know, the topic we’re talking about with supreme court that’s like in the United States, but feel free to share how up from whatever, like perspective you’d like whether that’s in the Americas or globally. But you know, what are your thoughts on equity and how we might approach teaching and talking about that concept in the workplace? So that, you know, I think that sometimes there are problems with recognizing, oh, is this an inequity? Or is this equity? How does that fit in? So just curious about your thoughts on that? Yeah, absolutely.
SR 18:25 So, you know, equity is is an important, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion, right? It’s important to understand the distinction of those three words, really, because, you know, equity is that glue, if you will. So it’s rightfully so situated between diversity and inclusion, you say, and I say that, because equity is really the component that says, We’re not only an organization who desires and seeks to be diverse. And not only do we want to be diverse, and making sure that we also are inclusive, inclusive, meaning representation across all levels of the organization, that identify in these various communities. But equity is meeting that diverse talent, where they are and providing the opportunities that’s going to actually level the playing field for each of them. I think we do that by way of a number of the programs that we have for recruitment, internships, that we have trainings and mentorship programs that we have as an institution, all of these things combined, creates a real culture of equity within our institution for not just underrepresented individuals, but those who may also you have it all together in a way right and maybe just need a little bit of encouragement. So perhaps maybe this individual just needs, you know, mentors versus other individual from say, you know, other communities may desire or may need, you know, more of a hands on training, right. So they may need to attend some of our corporate trainings for, you know, building resumes, or whatever the case may be, right. So, and it’s because we have to understand that as a global institution, no matter where we are in the world, there’s a community in that region, that could potentially benefit from having various opportunities to for personal development and professional development, right. So I think that’s really important for us to consider and keep in mind, because ultimately, we want to be able to meet individuals where they are in their professional development career, and really providing an opportunity to them. If we’re say in, you know, in the African American community, then perhaps maybe the resume writing, right, if they attended a university or college that’s smaller in size, and perhaps maybe lack funding, and that kind of thing, to be able to have the kinds of professional resources available within the institution. So perhaps maybe this is where we meet these individuals, as individuals in say, you know, various rural, impoverished communities throughout either Europe or Asia or Africa, right, where perhaps, maybe electricity is scarce. And so it’s important that we understand the context behind where the talent is that we’re looking for, and the communities that our employees actually come from, so that we’re better able to reach individuals where they are to make sure that they have the resources and of course, the presentation of their skills, so that we can build the best workforce out there. Great
JM 21:32 response, love that. Thank you for that. Now pulling this back into the United States, because it’s something you mentioned earlier, I wanted to make sure to address it is like bringing HBCUs and HSIs. And PW eyes into the conversation of like, Okay, how are we, you know, from your perspective, and where your role is like, do you see a shift or how you might continue to collaborate with, you know, those HBCUs those institutions, because I know, we were kind of mentioning reaching out to different kinds of communities. So I just wanted to make sure to give space for that, too. Yeah, so
SR 22:01 basically building those relationships with HBCUs. So I think HBCUs and other, you know, minority predominant institutions, you know, of higher higher learning, I think it is really important for us to recognize that if we completely disregard the ruling of the Supreme Court, right. And we do absolutely nothing to build on the relationships with these underrepresented communities, that we would, I believe, truly create a, it would result in us widening the gap in the inequities that exists within, you know, the country. So for me, making sure that we create, and sometimes like, for instance, we have this month, February, we have what we call an HBCU day that we’re planning. And what we’ve done is we’re inviting, you know, individuals who have professional backgrounds that are critical to our business needs, inviting them into our institution for one day, to expose them to the culture, the professionals within our institution, and our global mission as an institution, and helping them to understand or sharing with them so that they understand our global mission includes their perspective. So it’s needed, right? So it’s in all of these individuals are graduates or alum of HBCUs. And or they are also currently predominantly MBA students, or masters level students from these institutions. This is truly important, because if for some reason, the outreach at these institutions were to dwindle as a result of the ruling, because institutions of higher learning Do not place as much emphasis on recruiting from these communities based on on race and things, then what that means is that it is the ingredient of talent deficit within the professional arena, finding the talent with various backgrounds, we could actually pull from to support our organizational growth as an institution, and actually having that diverse perspective and culture within our institutions. So if the institutions of higher learning, be at PW eyes, predominantly white institutions have to do this, then what that means is that we kind of have no choice. And in though it’s important for us to also, even though we have been doing this prior to that ruling, reaching out to HBCUs. It means that if the trend follows the universities that I mentioned or referenced earlier out of California, if that trend continues, and it actually is the case across the country, that means a lesser representation of African American talent from these institutions, but as a corporate priority, right, it’s important for us to have this talent and we’re not going to stop looking for this talent just because the institutions of higher learning PW eyes have deep Really trees or a decline in in that talent. So as a result HBCUs and other minority serving institutions or predominantly minority serving institutions are going to be critical to us developing those strategic pipelines to actually find, you know, the top talent to fill the many vacancies that we have around the world. Great,
JM 25:23 great response, sir. I’m like, still, I’m still like processing that. I appreciate, you know, how you’re talking about corporate responsibility. Something I wanted to make sure if you had any more that you’d like to share on this part of building teams is, how would you challenge the perspective of executive leaders to think differently when it comes to building their teams.
SR 25:42 So, you know, the reality is that executive leaders are truly critical to ensuring the corporate responsibility to diversity is not lost in the fray of national politics. Right. And I say that because even though the Supreme Court ruling has, you know, caused sort of a, a shift in the educational institution, sort of world, but corporations and organizations have a responsibility to make sure that representation of all communities are being reflected within the institution. So for me, I think that it’s important that we continue to encourage and push the need for diversity across the board, relative to our leaders, right, our presidents, CEOs and directors, it’s important for them to challenge themselves as well, it’s important for them to really be vocal, not only, I mean, from a from a top down perspective, that this is a corporate priority, this is a corporate priority, because not only is it good for business, but most important thing, it’s right for business, it is our responsibility as leaders to make sure that all communities are represented sure that they themselves are keeping in mind the need for us to have diverse workforces and dialogue that celebrates diversity, and celebrates the need to have inclusive thought from various communities around the world or around the country or whatever, however, your organization is structured, whether it is international sort of multinational organization, or whether it is, you know, an American or institution that’s isolated to any particular country, that’s really important to have leaders make a firm declaration of the need for diversity across an organization, and embracing that encouraging the talent acquisition, and building talent strategies that are going to celebrate and achieve those goals and metrics as as an organization and in total,
JM 28:00 you know, I like that you brought in middle managers there, because, you know, they are a big piece of the puzzle, in my opinion, you know, so when building those teams, communicating the responsibility that they see, or the core values that they see the mission that they see, and, and facilitating that into the team, I think like middle managers are so like, They’re awesome, they can be really they can be put in positions where they are really making a difference, you know, so and with that, I think it’s important, I wanted to throw a question at you of like, how are we teaching and equipping those middle managers to know, this is what we want to do this is what is important to our company. And as you said, it’s good for business. Right? See I and welcoming, diverse teams is good for business. So I wanted to ask if there was a time that you saw, like, maybe middle managers be equipped and be taught those, you know, values in in an organization and Corporation? Yeah, I mean,
SR 28:47 definitely. So as a consultant, right, as an HR consultant, and particularly because I do have a very specialized focus in a way as well, within global diversity. Many times I have actually been brought into organizations to actually speak or share insight, you know, on the importance of diversity and institutions, and in what various statistics and stats show surrounding diversity and how it’s good for business, and is good for culture, and is good for just doing the right thing. Right. So I’ve definitely been a part of those types of forums and in sessions on where, you know, we discussed diversity in this, you know, in this context, but then also when it comes down to practice, right, the practical nature of, you know, implementing ideas into a workforce plan, or, you know, talent sourcing or talent acquisition objectives and goals. These kinds of things are critical for middle managers, because these are the ones who are making the decisions on the front line, right. These are the ones who’s who’s meeting with their teams every single week, in some cases every single day, and making sure that they have outlined or put in front of their team various objectives or goals, relative to diversity in recruiting individuals from diverse backgrounds and things. So it’s important that these individuals are bought in, they’re not going to be bought in unless their managers and leaders are bought in. So it’s critical. And I won’t say I’ll backtrack that a little bit, perhaps maybe many of them will be bought in, even if their leaders are not bought in, then in that case, it is their responsibility, I feel to make sure that they advocate up the chain of the importance of this as an institution or on their team and in their, their organization. We all have a responsibility. And no matter where we sit on the organizational flowchart of responsibility, we all have a responsibility to commit to wanting to do the right thing from a social and governance perspective. So I think that that is critical for middle managers as well as leaders in the light.
JM 31:02 Yeah, that was an exciting response. I was like, yep, yes, I agree. And I love that you’re talking about the advocacy part. Because it’s, it is an opportunity, that’s, I feel like that’s a really important position to me of seeing, you know, you can actually really make a difference with the people who are entry level if you’re a middle manager. And that really matters to me, I mean, a little bit biased, because I was manager, but
SR 31:22 you were a great manager.
JM 31:25 Thank you, I appreciate you. Yeah, I kind of miss it a little bit, but it’s fine. I’m in a different phase of my life. Okay, I’m going to turn it a little bit more personal here, because I’m just curious, you’ve been talking a lot about, you know, your strategic thinking that I see in your mind with your responses, gonna turn out a little bit more personal. If your younger self who was just starting a career in talent acquisition today? What advice would you give yourself? You
SR 31:47 know, that’s actually a very tough question. Because this process has always been sort of a journey of, you know, like learning. So even if I had provided myself with the advice that I would give, like, I feel like, at a point, I would realize, man, I could, I could actually do something a little different here. Or maybe I could consider this or consider that. But I guess if I just really had to provide myself with some advice, I would really just say, you know, to not become frustrated, and to just be resilient, right, be persistent, because the reality is that, for many organizations, especially in a global context, the way that people view diversity can be very different. And the way that you tackle the need for diversity would obviously mean that it’s going to be very different. And so what that what that translates is, the solutions that are usually effective in some places may not necessarily be effective in other places, just because the culture of said location is different. And so as a result, you know, middle managers and leaders, even though they’re not in a frontline sort of role, if you will, they are in fact, still kind of making the decision as to approve or not approve certain initiatives that you want to put forward or, or whatever the case may be. So for someone who’s really passionate about diversity, and just feels like, Oh, I know, I know, we can do this, I know, we can do that, we should do this, we should do that. And then put, you know, great ideas together, and then, you know, try to push them up the road for approval and all these kinds of things. Sometimes it can be a little frustrating, to not see the result of something that you’ve worked so hard for, right. So that can be a bit of a challenge. And it means that, you know, you have to kind of roll it back a little bit, think of another approach, right, which may not be as, you know, effective as, say, the previously thought one or whatever the case may be, but But nonetheless, it just it’s a process, because again, many institutions view it differently. And as a result, maybe don’t take it as serious if I’m just being honest as as others. For instance, there’s you know, places like Brazil, right, where there is an actual meant a government mandated sort of law in place that that would require organizations to have individuals with disabilities and actually have in hire a certain number, right? Whereas that’s not necessarily the case in you know, maybe some places have, you know, in Africa, or maybe you’re right, so how we approach it in Brazil would be welcome, because man, we really need to do this, versus how we approach it in say, maybe the United States or Europe or somewhere. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s talked about, yeah, we need this, but there’s no real demand relative to a law that says you need to do so. The programs I’ve put together for Brazil might be great, and they may be welcomed and because it helps us achieve this objective Right, and thanks. But in another location, there is no objective. There is no, though no Hardline, you know, metric that stated that says this, we must have this many individuals of this community, or this certain third. So, it may be more resistance. Not only that in America, to identify race, you know, as a metric for diversity and to recruit, and things like that, in some organizations, there’s the question of, you know, race and ethnicity where you mark whether you’re, you know, your black, African American, Asian, you know, European descent and that kind of thing. You mark those things in America, when you’re applying to a job. But in Europe, it’s almost unheard of in various places, right. And you don’t indicate whether you’re black, right, you don’t indicate a race, per se. And so when I’m trying to, let’s just say a manager is from Europe. So their perspective on how to approach race is very different, even though I may be American. And I have, you know, a sense and an understanding of the complexity of race, and it is something that we embrace as a community, right, as a culture in America. Yes, I’m proud to be African American and proud to be black, I’m proud to me, there’s nothing wrong with that. And I don’t believe necessarily, that you’re going to slide me on an opportunity as a result of being African American, or, or whatever the case may be. So the answer those self identifier kind of questions in our application process in many American applications, but if my managers from Europe, and we say, Oh, we want to target, you know, African American individuals, or we want to add race, ethnicity, to American to the applications of individuals, Mark, that they are American, or you’re from the United States, because it’s something that they are asked all the time. So we want to get that so that we can measure our success in racial diversity from American, you know, nationals because of the uniqueness in American country versus say, Asia or somewhere else, right. So these are the types of things that kind of creates the complexity of, you know, a bit, but it’s really important for us to keep in mind that to not give up, going back to your original question, right, to advise myself to be persistent, not give up, never stop, if something doesn’t necessarily go the way and look for other opportunities to meet the demand. That’s at hand.
JM 37:27 Yeah, you know, what I really appreciate about your responses is that there’s this like awareness of the nuance in different cultures and demographics, and things like that, that I hear in your responses. And then also also on top of that, okay, how can we be creative with a solution that just makes sense? Like, you know, it’s, it’s just, let’s, let’s, it’s kind of it’s being objective, but at the same time being sensitive and aware of the nuance of cultures and different identities. So that was really interesting to hear. And I appreciate about that about your answers. You kind of started to answer this question, but I’m going to ask it anyways. So I was asking you about, you know, your younger self, but now where you are now, I was curious, if you could share it three ways, you approach people strategy with a global perspective in mind? And he started to answer that, too. So I
SR 38:11 think, really, the global strategy is, is I mean, it’s really understanding the culture of the particular region that I’m going to be going into, right, it’s understanding the little details about various cultures, so that people understand that not only am I coming into this culture, to recruit talent, and things like that, because I find it important, I can’t possibly find it important. If I know nothing about the culture, I get I say, oh, you know, I want to recruit individuals from say, the Middle East, particularly Middle Eastern women, right. And if I go into the Middle East, trying to recruit me listening women, and I have no sense of who are predominantly Muslim, you know, background, right, I should know not to extend my hand to her right to shake her hand, if she’s if she’s covered in his job. Right. I should, you know, just greet her, you know, with the proper greeting in the culture. And that sort of thing. I should, you know, if I go to say, you know, maybe somewhere in, you know, in, in Britain, or, you know, England, rather, perhaps maybe in some of these sections from having a coffee chat, or I’m sorry, a tea chat. You know, what it is knowing those nuances of the cultures, the communities that people live in, so that they could see, not only does this individual say, he believes in diversity, but he understands the cultures that he’s actually, you know, recruiting talent in these individuals fun, more probability to have more sensitivity, you know, he has more sensitivity towards the things that are important to my culture, and he respects that. So the key to recruiting talent on a global scale is to be mindful of people’s culture, and communities and beliefs and respect those things, because that is their core, that is the core of who they are to disregard or disrespect those things means to disregard or disrespect the person and the culture. We don’t want to do that, as a community. Neither do we want to do that as as an employer. So sharing and being mindful of that, I would say, secondly, making sure that they recognize that as an institution, if you go into our institutions, we have places and spaces within our community, within our instant in our corporate environment, rather, that actually caters to your needs, that are relevant to your culture, as I was speaking about, you know, Muslim women and Muslims in general, right, Muslims, you know, those who are practicing, rather know how to pray five times a day, right. So if they’re at work for eight hours, many of those times a day that they have to pray are going to be while they’re at work. So acknowledging that as an institution, we have prayer rooms and spaces for them to, to wash accordingly, and also pray throughout the day, as an attraction to our institution, because we’re mindful, and we understand and respect to your culture and your community. So that would be another the availabilities that we have within our institution to support their their needs, you know, as respects to their their faith. And then I would think, you know, third is, again, as I kind of said earlier, today, in a way, what really meeting that community or that individual, where they are, you know, understanding, listening, actively listening to the concerns, or ideas or things that they may be interested in, in coming to our organization, and making sure to speak to those things, and letting them know, Hey, I recall as having a discussion about you wanting to join our team, but you had a concern potentially, about professional development, or career development, and being able to go back to that individual and share various, you know, feed, you know, that would encourage their Joining our teams, so that they know, wow, he actually listened, you know, he listened to this small little thing that I said, when I was concerned about whatever. And he got back to me to express, you know, the importance of these things in their workforce and in their environment as an institution. So I think those are really the three things ultimately, that are key to talent attraction, because we have to attract them and get them interested in our organization. Before the recruitment process, even start,
JM 42:34 I love that. And also, what I appreciated was, you not only talked about the attraction part, but you know, I think just addressing Hey, you said that you were interested in gross, here are the resources to do that, that is so meaningful, you know, and so you’re not only just addressing the attraction, but you’re addressing the development. And, you know, also the retention, right of that person, anything that’s so important as well, you know, if you have high retention numbers, because you just structurally have something in there or not even structurally just like have great people that pay attention and are interested in that. I think that will make organizations even more adaptable through changing times, right, like the pandemic COVID, whatever happens with the world, right. So that’s what I really appreciated about what you said, and especially beating the person or the community where they’re at. Okay, the last question I have for this topic, is, you know, for those HR people out there who are listening, anything that you would like to leave them with, after for today’s conversation for those
SR 43:28 individuals, I would just simply kind of give honestly, the the advice that I in a way kind of gave our leaders as well, you know, we really, we have to be committed at all levels of our institution, to embrace the beauty of diversity at all levels. And in some respect, sometimes it requires us to manage up, right. So, you know, letting our managers know, hey, this is something that I’ve noticed. What are we doing to rectify that, you know, are we doing anything? How can I support this, this call is how can I get involved with this, and especially as human resource professionals, we should be a bit of depth on, you know, policies and, and things but also understanding the importance of people strategy throughout the organization, you know, in general. So, perhaps maybe there’s no role that all of us are able to play in terms of, you know, a structured role within the institution, right, because we all have our various jobs to do but we all have a role to play in advancing the precepts and the objectives of diversity throughout the organization by being vocal and being advocates at all levels.
JM 44:46 Love that answer, managing up and also, you know, just continuing to have your own. Again, this is what I said in the beginning, but I appreciate to just like, learning from you because of your experience in the HR space, and I totally feel like I’m satisfied. With the responses that I got today, so thank you so much. The last question I have for you it, you know, you answer this however you like whether that’s like you saw something and you’re like, yes, that’s what’s happening, or whether you want to give a full on description or definition. So what does an inclusive workplace culture look like to you? I’m gonna
SR 45:19 brag a little bit about this, because it looks like it looks like the culture I think that we have at IFC, it speaks to having supportive organizations, or support ERGs employee resource groups, that speaks to the communities that our underrepresented within this within the institution, it speaks to the or involves having Wellness Centers for nursing moms, to be able to nurse their children when they come to work, or if they come to our space, it speaks to the religious diversity that we have within our institution and having spaces that are sensitive to the needs of those communities. It speaks to initiatives and mentorship opportunities that allow for underrepresented communities to find a space to vent and to grow professionally. You see, it also speaks to having a dedicated resource to continuously and actively grow the institution, the institution’s diversity, recruitment initiatives and programs. And it speaks to having dedicated resources financially, right, that supports those goals, and says, Hey, not only do we have these, these ideas, not only is this important to us, but here’s the money to make sure that it happens. Because it all requires money. At the end of the day, here are the resources to make sure that we’re able to deliver on our goals of increasing diversity within the institution in a fixed way throughout the entirety of our organization for the longevity of our organization. So to circle back to the beginning, is truly living up to I think the model that we’ve put together as an institution, which I’ve had the honor of leading within the International Finance Corporation.
JM 47:11 Love that response. I wanted to give a little pause after that. So yes, I’m glad that you’re able to brag about that. And I can see what you were sharing about the different rooms and the sensitivity. So again, just appreciate you coming here and lending us your perspective, your lived experience. And just to hear the level of nuance and awareness and consideration you have in your responses has been so refreshing today. So thank you so much. Absolutely. It’s a pleasure.
Thank you for joining us today. As we continue to explore how we can enable diversity at work, follow us and get notified of our latest episodes. Also, we want to hear from you. Please like rate and review us on your podcast app or wherever you’re listening in. If you want to contact us, please visit diverseek.com – that is d i v e r s e e k.com. This episode was produced by Madhu Nair, edited by Cansin Dalak, researched by JOLENE MEI, music composed by Nicholas Lang and our production team includes Keisha Williams, Prashant Balbar and Maria Querina. I am your host JOLENE MEI and you have been listening to DIVERSEEK.
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