Chief Diversity Officer
Bridget Hurd (BH) 0:01 What about transportation? Are you able to get to a provider’s office? How far away from your home? Is that provider’s office? These are things that can create barriers. Are there parks and playgrounds in your neighborhood? When we think about that wellness and that big picture of that whole person, hell is truly that opportunity to to examine the opportunities for physical activity outside of the home, do you live in a walkable community, then there’s things like education, and that looks at overall literacy, as well as health literacy. And I’ll pause there, because when we think about HR and the opportunity to engage employees, help them understand their employee benefits is key. So we can look for the opportunity to find ways to get that information to our employees, but then also break down that information so they really understand the coverage that they have access to, and how they can use that to help ensure you know, access to the care that they need. So very, very important in terms of the role of HR departments.
Jolene Mei (JM) 1:16 Hello, everyone. This is JOLENE MEI, your host for the DIVERSEEK podcast, where we talk with real people doing real work in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space. If you want to explore what people are doing right, what positive impacts are happening or even how positive changes can be done. You’re in the right place. We welcome you to join us.
JM 1:40 Today we have Bridget Hurd with us. Bridget is the Vice President of Inclusion and Diversity and Chief Diversity Officer at Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. She is passionate about connecting people to the resources and information they need to be their very best and helping employees grow, connect and learn about different cultures, communities, generations works tyles and perspectives. Bridget has over 27 years of experience addressing and strategizing towards inclusion, diversity, health equity, community relations, and corporate social responsibility. She is also the recipient of the Denta Quest 2020 Health Equity heroes award recognizing individuals working to achieve equity during the Coronavirus was recognized as a top 100 Diversity Officer by the National Diversity Council in 2021 and 2023 as one of the Diversity Global Magazine’s Top 15 Influential Women in Diversity. And as Crain’s Detroit business notable leader in diversity, equity and inclusion, Bridget has a welcoming and infectious personality and sees inclusion and diversity having a huge capacity to connect people where we share our stories and experiences to learn from one another. Lastly, Bridget enjoys watching British murder mysteries like Agatha Christie’s Poirot, and Midsomer Murders. Please note, all statements made by Bridget during podcast are solely her own and do not express the views or opinions of her employer. Here we are Bridget, thank you so much for coming. And I’m excited to host you.
BH 3:06 Thank you so much. I’m so excited for this conversation. And thank you for the great introduction.
JM 3:11 You’re welcome. I mean, you You deserve it, you really do. I mean, there was a lot of awards in there. And I just was like, Okay, how am I going to say all these, but make it matter and make it flow. And I hope I did that.
BH 3:22 But anyways, we definitely did. And it truly matters because I am very privileged to be in this role to serve the employees of our company to serve our members and to serve the community at large. And I think those awards are just an expression of my passion and my commitment and dedication. So thank you for sharing.
JM 3:41 Of course, I love how beautifully you put that of sharing your passion, you know. And with that I’m going to segue into our first question because you kind of started is just, you know, tell us more about yourself and how you approach the work that you do
BH 3:53 the flight actually have a very multifaceted background, I have worked in the healthcare industry nearly 30 years in different roles and capacities. Everything from Community Relations, where I had the opportunity to engage with community residents and truly get to understand what their real healthcare needs are, what barriers that they face in accessing care that they need. Also, I’ve worked in a communications role in the healthcare industry. And that was important because it’s identifying the best ways to connect people, to the resources to the information, how do I break down complex things and make it really understandable and relatable to everyday people. And in my current roles here at Blue Cross Blue Shield, where I’m an employee, I’ve had the opportunity to engage in our corporate giving. That means building partnerships with a lot of nonprofit organizations, again, that are that link to the community and in my current role, leading inclusion and diversity Is that opportunity, as you’ve already said, to bring and connect our employees, so we can really learn about one another learn about real people, as I always say, and you know, learn about the different communities learn about all of the different cultures. And when I say all of them, all of them, learn about different generations and what where the similarities are and where the differences are, and how we begin to understand and value those things. So I guess the idea of connecting and communicating and convening bringing people together is something that’s been a part of my entire career. And for me, that’s what has made it so exciting.
JM 5:38 Yeah, I love that, you know, listening to you reminded me of the book, The Art of gathering, have you read that book, I have read that book. Yes. For any listeners listening, that’s a really great book, I feel like after reading it, and by reading it, when I say that, it means that I didn’t finish, it means that I read like, maybe halfway
BH 5:52 through, you don’t always have to finish I didn’t read it cover to cover, because it’s actually pretty simple. But the point is to really lean into the main idea of so that’s really the importance of how do you bring people to gather in a way that’s meaningful, and has true and significant impact? And so when I think about my work, I have that opportunity and privilege to be able to do that.
JM 6:16 Yes. And I love that. And I hear that from you. And the reason why I’m bringing it up is because after reading it, I feel like how I hosted meetings changed in my work. So for any listeners listening, I’d definitely recommend it to consider it that way for you know, professional level, you know, of hosting meetings, who are you hosting it for? So great
BH 6:33 question as who you’re hosting it for what is the purpose in attempt, and then making sure that everyone who attends that meeting also has an understanding of what the purpose and intent,
JM 6:44 exactly, I love that. And I love development in that way, leadership development. And with that, you know, I feel like I’m here today, because health and especially health disparities, it’s something that I’m aware of, but honestly, I don’t discuss on a personal level with those around me. And if we start discussing it in the professional setting, as it applies to benefits as it applies to maybe HR and what we need to keep in mind or managers, what we need to keep in mind when we are managing teams and supporting humans, and as you said, learn about real human beings, or real people, maybe it can start there, you know, to have that awareness. So that’s, that’s the intention that I’m bringing to this meeting. And hopefully, listeners, this is going to benefit you some way with that awareness piece. So let’s go ahead and get started, I wanted to start off with what we’re aiming for. And you brought this term up. So I’m gonna go ahead and throw it at you is if you can define what is the optimum level of health.
BH 7:35 So the optimal level of health really varies from person to person. And when we talk about health disparities, or health care disparities, which are different things, health disparities, still with health outcomes, morbidity, or mortality that’s connected to certain health outcomes, or health, chronic disease states, where healthcare disparities focus on access to care, having health insurance coverage, the quality of care that’s received. And so these are very complex things which explain why, you know, we’re not talking about it a lot at at the dinner table. And another piece of that it’s around social determinants of health, those factors where we live, where we play, how, where we learn how those all influence our health outcomes. So those are the things that we’re more likely to talk about when something is a barrier to me getting the care that I need, and looking at those opportunities to learn there. So because of all of these different factors, optimal health varies from person to person. And so, you know, prior to us starting the podcast, we were talking about the whole idea of wellness and optimal health, and my perspective, is that opportunity to think about whole person chair, and how wellness shows up in each person’s life.
JM 9:00 Yeah, I’m doing a lot of head nods over here, you know, talking about social determinants of health. I’m curious, I know you started talking about it. But would you mind giving maybe an example of how might that come up? And also, that’s one part. The second part is like, what does that mean for the HR leaders and managers who are listening? Like how does that transfer over to them at the workplace?
BH 9:19 Yeah. So social determinants of health, again, are the circumstances in which people are born, where they grow up, where we live, where we were, where we age, and all of those different factors about our environment. And when we think about health care and access to health care, actually, most of the health outcomes are determined by our physical or environmental or by social determinants, again, things that we experience from day to day, about 80% of health outcomes are actually influenced by those factors. So there’s 20% That’s what happens in the providers on Office, for example, if those 80%, they’ll have those different factors that we talk about when we refer to social determinants of health. So what are some examples of social determinants of health? There are six main categories that are usually yours. There’s around economic stability that looks at factors like are you employed or not? Are you underemployed? What are you your debt? Were medical bills, for instance, you may have to contend with, then there’s the neighborhood and physical environment where you live housing is a big social determinants of health. Do you have stable housing? Do you have running water within your home? What about transportation? Are you able to get to a provider’s office? How far away from your home is that provider’s office? These are things that can create barriers are there parks and playgrounds in your neighborhood? When we think about that wellness, and that big picture of that whole person, health is truly that opportunity to to examine the opportunities for physical activity outside of the home, do you live in a walkable community, then there’s things like education, and that looks at overall literacy, as well as health literacy. And I’ll pause there, because when we think about HR, and the opportunity to engage employees, help them understand their employee benefits is key. There’s so many studies that indicate time after time, that you and I don’t even know what all of my health benefits are. And I work for a health plan. So we can look for the opportunity to find ways to get that information to our employees, but then also break down that information. So they really understand the coverage that they have access to, and how they can use that to help ensure, you know, access to the care that they need. So very, very important in terms of the role of HR departments. Another area that’s often examined in terms of social determinants of health is around food and food security or food insecurity and having access to healthy options. So when we say healthy is really the opportunity to break that terminology down foods that have strong or high nutritional value, are there stores in person neighborhood grocery stores where they can get fresh vegetables on a regular basis. So assessing that food security or food insecurity is very important. So often, we make an assumption that because someone is employed, that food, in access to food will not be an issue. But we know also by the number of food banks across our communities, that individuals families are impacted by food insecurity on a regular basis. Then there’s the community and safety and social contacts. And that’s looking at everything from having a support system, having people around us who can help guide us and be advocates for us in terms of our health care, knowing where to go in terms of resources in your community. So are you aware of those resources? Do you know where to go to get certain care or get assistance when we need it? Stress also factors into the community and safety and social context. Stress is a huge social determinants of health, something that we all experience in one way or another. But it is a factor that is chronic, and have extreme impacts on someone’s health. And then the sixth area focuses on the health care system, the healthcare ecosystem, again, looking at things like health coverage, access to providers, and again, bringing in that distance to get to a provider, the quality of care that’s delivered, are your health concerns being met, or your health concerns being dismissed? If you look at it in the in the other way, are the treatments that are available being provided and offered for you to get you the care that you mean. So I covered a lot of information there. But just to show the breadth of what we have to think about and consider when we’re talking about social determinants of health. So I’ve mentioned health literacy and providing information and access to that information for employees. But what’s also key is connecting employees to resources in their community. So I think back to about three years ago, four years ago, oh my gosh, four years ago at the onset of combat and a focus on employee needs really rose to the top during that first year in particular and of course, the years after, and there’s a big demand to really understand health disparities because Have we know, by April of 2020, we saw the disparities related to COVID skyrocket, and they were impacting certain communities within our neighborhoods and our state’s and our cities, and primarily African Americans and Hispanic Latino communities, as well as the native communities were very highly impacted by COVID. But also, when we look within our companies and where we work, we know that there was a lot of stress going on, because we were dealing in the unknown, a majority of us were working at home and working at home all the time and raising families and being a caregiver. So all of these different stressors are in place and impacted people and impacted our employees. So what do we do? So in response to that, we started to focus more on mental health and addressing mental health needs through the workplace, also a push to connect people to community resources. And so I’m going to circle right back to that, when we think about social determinants of health, it is that opportunity to understand the needs of your employees, and then to find the best ways to connect employees to resources that help them meet those needs.
JM 16:18 So many great things that you share there. I personally was connecting a lot with my personal experiences just listening to you. And I’m sure and I hope that a lot of the listeners were too and especially, you know, the theme in my mind, I came up with the access and the mode to receiving resources and care. And I love that you ended your response with that of saying like, okay, in the role of manager or HR, how are we contributing to that pathway? How can we further define the pathways that are real people can access care that they need, you know, so I thought that was really interesting. And you know, an example that I bring up in preparation for the next question, which we will be talking about disparities. So I live in the San Bernardino mountains. And last year, we had a record breaking snowstorm. And for us, our local grocery store, the roof fell in, and we had major, major issues when it came to access, as in my neighborhood street was not plowed for over a week. So that meant that I an able bodied younger person, put on my snow gear and I’m like, cool, we’re gonna go for a hike, you know, just try to be positive about it in which I was, you know, maybe that’s a double edged sword there. But I was like, Okay, we’re gonna go to like Goodwin’s and we’re going to get what we need went there. It wasn’t collapsed yet, but three days later, after we had obtained the resources that we need, and we also went to Ace Hardware to get a new shovel three days after both buildings had the roofs roof Kingdon, you know, and it was like, Okay, this is apocalyptic. Alright, so I’m glad that I have lentils, rice and beans, and soup stock, I am somebody who plans ahead with the food security that I am able to have, with the time that I was able to prepare, right? And I am able bodied, right? We have a large community up here who are elderly, who are working on fixed income, and who are unable to shovel their driveways, you know, so for me, like I was, it was taking my mind there of like, Oh, these are the disparities, not the disparities, the social determinants and the access challenges that I was experiencing at that time, you know, and how the community responded was, we now have what’s called a mountain community mutual aid, where they made access to free food to free wood for those who lost electrical power, so that they can have warrants, warrants, as
BH 18:37 well. Yeah. And so that also, I have a couple of thoughts. And that makes me think about COVID Again, as well. And the month of March in particular, remember, my last day at work was March the 11th. And I remember leaving, I packed up a few things and realized I needed to pack up a few more things, because that would be gone for three years, right. But I’ve had the privilege of being able to go home and pack up some stuff and go home with my laptop and work from my desk in my home each and every day. But in that same time, there are individuals who are still getting up getting dressed and getting out and usually taking public transportation to get to their workplace. And they usually the new terminology we came up with they were frontline workers. So they were working in the grocery stores or they were working in the hospital setting. And during that March, that first month of March and probably a little part of April, we’re still trying to figure out should we wear a mask for protection or not? And all of the people making that decision, were sitting safely in a room with one another. They’re nicely protected from others on the outside. They were not on the bus, you know, getting up getting dressed, getting out getting on the bus every day without a mask to go to work. And so the policies, probably I would say were enacted maybe a little slower. And then they could have been, because of just that perspective, that lived experience that they were having versus another individual. And I remember, it’s a very well known story. In fact, here in Detroit, there’s a bus terminal that has just been named after the individual. He was a bus driver, I think about around the age of 50, and close to 50. And he did a video, and he posted it on I think Facebook, it was, and he just talked about how every day individuals are getting on the bus, and they’re coughing, and sneezing and coughing and sneezing on him. And I always get a little emotional when I recount the story. Within two weeks, he was there. He was doing his job. He was committed, he was dedicated, but concerned. And he ended up contracting COVID. And then he died from COVID. And we know that COVID was lethal, especially lead those still lethal, but especially lethal in that first year. And so when we talk about disparities, when we talk about social determinants is all of these different kinds of factors when you reflect on the snow storm, and we have an aging pelvic population, that may experience some level of disability, but they also may have a need for medication. And so during this time, how do they get access to medication they may need. So all of those things are kind of different factors we have to think about ideally in advance, and not after, but we do learn from our experiences. And it sounds like your community has developed a really strong action plan for really thinking about the diversity of people, and the diversity of needs in your community. And when we talk about things like terminology, we’ve heard a lot of health equity and health disparities and social determinants of health is really that opportunity to understand that one size does not fit all, when we talk about employees. And we think that while they’re in Florida here, they’re all doing just fine. If that opportunity to say well, let me think about that. Because one size does not fit all, there might be different reasons and different lived experiences among employees, that I might need to think about our benefits coverage or special programs or how we bring health care into the setting. Maybe it’s that blood pressure check day, or partnering with the American Heart Association to provide information and knowledge. And those are the ways that we can take proactive steps in terms of health disparities in health care disparities, and addressing social determinants of health.
JM 22:54 Hello, listeners, time for a quick break to give your brain a quick rest. If you have not done so already, I would like to support our mission, please follow our podcast, leave a review, or share this episode with someone you think would enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening in. And let’s get back to the conversation. I love this conversation. I do feel that sharing these anecdotes, they shed more light on the specific lived experiences that some people might not have ever experienced or recognize that they may experience you know. And last thing I’ll say that I wanted to share regarding disparities because you were bringing up COVID. And again, this is with the intention that I hope that sharing would just bring awareness of like, Hey, have I thought about that have I thought about this person who lives in this city or this demographic, and how their access to health resources may be different from mine, because as somebody who grew up I grew up in Orange County, okay, in Southern California, middle class, I now live in San Bernardino County, right? It’s different here. And I love living in the mountains. I’m choosing to live in the mountains for my mental health. But during COVID That first year, we always host Christmas at my grandparents house. And I’m like, oh, I want to protect them. I’m gonna go get tested before and we were all going to get tested, my brothers still lived in Orange County, they were able to get testing best paid for it. I went to my local by the way, I am somebody who does have to commute to get health care which I understand that difference when for me choosing to live in the mountains. And so I went down to my urgent care to get free COVID testing. And everybody else had the same idea as me and I stood in line for eight hours to get tested. I’m not kidding to get tested because I did not want to go to see my grandparents and not know so it’s coming from that place. And you also have to consider I know for me, a lot of my friends who are Latina, were highly impacted by COVID because they tended to be the caregivers and also the culture. There’s a lot of touching and hugging as well. As somebody who has been there part of their family gatherings, and so imagine having to, I’m putting myself in that place of like, okay, I’m the caregiver of somebody older than me, I’m trying to get tested. And now I have standing in this line for eight hours, when I need to think of like, oh, I need to help prepare the food or like, you know, how are we going to teamwork, or whatever for the holidays? But you have
BH 25:21 to be safe. Exactly. So that’s number one. But again, there was like, it seemed like one access point in terms of getting the COVID testing. And that was another thing that came up with COVID. In particular, testing sites in the location for testing sites, were we being inclusive? Were we really putting the testing sites initially in neighborhoods and rural communities where people could easily access them? And so that’s the key. Everyone’s not going to stand in line for eight hours. Yes, for sure. Like, for concert tickets. That’s what we used to do for concert tickets.
JM 25:58 I’m like, I want to go to Christmas, I need to get tested. I don’t want to put my grandparents in this situation. And the rest of my family. I’m like, too committed sometimes. But yeah, that’s what I did. And, you know, I was like, I’m gonna go into this holiday with full confidence is where my mind was at, you know? So you know, I just share that, because, again, like, not everyone would do that. But that’s something some people are choosing to do. Now, that was back in the day, you know, and I bring that up, because what we were talking about with social determinants of health, access to community resources, this all impacts the person, how would that impact that person going to work the next day? You know, though, I bring that up, and I did want to start the conversation on disparities. You mentioned it earlier about the contrast and definition of health disparities and health care disparities. So let’s go ahead and start there. So again,
BH 26:46 one focuses on the mortality and morbidity and deaths of health care workers, so is about illness and death from illness, and usually with chronic diseases. And then again, health disparities around access to care, how peers utilize the quality of care. And all of these factors are, again, show up in different ways based on socio economic status, gender, identity, age, geography, do you live in a suburban location, rural location, urban, all of these things are factors that come into play. And so there are a lot of statistics out there, too, just about the cost of health and healthcare disparities. In terms of our health care system, man, I’m trying to remember it is like a trillion dollars if we don’t get this taken care of right away. And when we think about it, it’s truly that opportunity to engage a broad community. So health plans, the nonprofits in the community, grassroots leaders in organizations and communities employ years, again, as I’ve mentioned, in the different ways that they can work to support employees, provide information and education, even advocate, with policymakers, and working with our providers, the doctors and the health care professionals in our health care systems, all of those things come into play. So water disparities, something that’s been in the news a lot is a focus on maternal health and maternal care and deaths, in particular from the maternal journey or birthing process. And when we look at the United States and re rank almost at the bottom, in terms of the quality of care that we provide for persons birthing persons is just amazing when you think about it. And what we see based on the statistics, is that one, first of all, maternal deaths are increasing in what’s called severe maternal morbidity. I don’t want to use too much technical jargon, but severe maternal morbidities, things like preeclampsia or high blood pressure that a woman may experience during the birth that a person may experience through the birthing process. Looking at those kinds of factors. Sepsis was another example. So it is rising and increasing for everyone in the United States. But then when we look at certain populations, like African Americans and black women, for example, they are almost three times more likely to die from the birthing process, or two to three times more likely to experience the severe maternal morbidity, and then that’s followed by the native population, as well as Hispanic and Latino women. So that’s the disparity when we see such a prevalent difference in the health outcomes associated with a particular disease state, or in this instance, the birthing process. And so when we look at things we need to do to address those situations, and I’m coming back to the work Life, there are a lot of ways again, to address this in the workplace. I want to focus on the turtle because my turtle has been in the news a lot. And the opportunity there again, when we look at research, it’s studies that have been conducted. It’s about understanding the services that are available. When we look at the benefits and opportunities, is there an opportunity to integrate doula coverage as part of your plan coverage, for example, or the use of a midwife? Because the research indicates that extra support that guidance that a midwife or doula brings to the birth in person truly makes a difference in their outcomes. And so is the opportunity to really reflect on that when we think of diabetes, which, of course impacts everyone, but it has a greater impact on Black and African Americans, for example, heart disease, the same thing. And so we see significant differences in the prevalence rate for those different health states. Yeah, I
JM 31:07 love that you’re bringing up doulas actually, that was actually brought up to me, I came across that in the subject that I was consuming as well of doulas because I felt like I knew what doulas were a while ago, a long time ago, but then only recently was I like, oh, that sounds beneficial, you know, considering the data.
BH 31:23 So what’s interesting, well, I have one child, and he is 26. And never at one point, I mostly heard of a doula, just very, very, very loosely, but never at any point was suggested to me that I should engage with a midwife or a doula to support me in the birthing process. So my brother journey back in the day, you don’t remember, but there’s this really thick book is probably about three inches thick. And it’s called What to Expect When You’re Expecting. And so that was the resource that I used if I had a question, or I wasn’t sure about something I didn’t even know, for example, that if you’re having lower back pain, that is a sign that you’re near labor. And I did not know that, because I just knew my back was killing me. And I was like, I need to lay down. And then that evening, I did go into labor. So doulas can really play a role in just providing information and education and the support, and they have someone to talk to, if they’re having shortness of breath, and they can understand what that means. Because often is dismissed. The doula is going to say, No, this is something you should pay attention to, you’re not just tired.
JM 32:39 I like this team approach that I’m hearing for maternal support. You know, especially, you know, we were talking about this earlier, the benefit of focusing on feeling yourself. And sometimes when you’re doing that, if you’re pregnant, I assume you might miss some things. So if you have a team that you can connect with that are direct, and accessible and welcoming resources, I could see that why that makes sense. And I know you talked about specifically maternal health, but wanted to make sure are there any other currently common like health or health care disparities that you wanted to just put on people’s awareness before we move forward,
BH 33:14 they pretty much fall in all areas, it can be kidney disease, diabetes, heart disease, there are disparities. When we look at persons with disabilities, they’re more likely to experience chronic health diseases that are greater and more prevalent rates. Again, it’s the same issues of access to services, there are stories of persons with disabilities who go into practices, maybe they show up in a wheelchair, and the setup of the office cannot appropriately accommodate their needs, so they’re not able to get the chair that they’re looking for. And as required, there was a really fabulous story, I think, last year in the New York Times, or at least in the last two years, that shared the stories of people who, because they’re disabled, they’re not able to get the quality of care. We think about members of the LGBTQ plus community. And we see a lot of disparities among those individuals as well. A lot of it is related to stigma to being rejected when they go to a provider. And when you reject that, you don’t want to go see another provider, so you’re not getting the preventative screenings that you need, also. So all of those different factors come into play in terms of disparities, and when we think about behavioral health, we see disparities there as well. If the member of the LGBTQ plus community is dealing with stigma and the stress and the pressure that results from that, you know, that contributes to a higher rate, behavioral health concerns and disorders as well. And so those are the factors again, which encouraged us of the need to think differently about how we deliver care how we make care accessible to people. And remember that one size snap fit.
JM 35:00 I wanted to first say that what you said, it reminded me of when you were talking about the optimum level of health, how it’s going to look different for everybody. So I’m kinda like circling back in my brain hearing that response. And going back to what we were discussing earlier. I did want to ask about implicit bias, because I felt like I could hear a little bit of that in your answer as well. So I wanted to touch on it, I wanted to ask you, what are a few biases that you wanted to acknowledge today? And, and also like, how would you suggest that people handle that I know that we were talking about, you know, if somebody goes to a health care provider, and they were rejected, it would might be more difficult, or they might feel discouraged to go to another. So that’s just an example. But just curious about what you wanted to share on that point. Yeah, so
BH 35:42 I want to make a note, because there are two things that I want to talk about as well, going to optimal health. And I’ll just share my personal story. And basically, I have what could be considered an invisible disability, I’m pretty much functioning right now. And I have an autoimmune condition that I was diagnosed. And so in my every day, especially in terms of infectious diseases that are making their rounds, whether it’s COVID, or RSV, or flu, those are all things that I have to be very careful about exposure to because it can impact my health. And so for me, my optimal level health is going to visit necessity. Now considering all of those things, and what are the things that I put in place, stress management, is another key factor. So I have to be mindful about those things in my everyday living, so I can get to my optimal level of health. And so that’s just a way of thinking about it. What are the pieces of the social system, the health care system, my workplace community, that are nurturing and supportive of me, in terms of achieving the optimal level of health that I need, it’s not gonna be vibrant, so I can show up and be productive, so that I can be a contributing member of my workplace family. So those are the kinds of themes as well, when we think about it from that whole person centered perspective. So when we think about unconscious bias is truly that opportunity to first understand that all of us as human beings, we all have some level of bias, and it shows up in different ways. And bias comes about just because of the wiring of our brains. And our brains are most of us all wired the same as far as I know. And so we learn things from what society teaches us shows us exposes us to, you know, where we raised the family, we were raised in what we see on television, what we see in the movies, what we read in books, subconsciously, all of these things become captured, into how we might think about things and view things. So when we’re talking about the concept of kind of being mindful in terms of implicit or unconscious bias, being mindful, it’s more than just you know, meditating is not meditating is an opportunity to really be conscious and thoughtful about how you’re engaging with another human being. So often, because we’re rushing from one thing to the next thing in our every day, we have shortcuts. And the shortcuts in our brains are those things that we’ve seen on TV, they’re stereotypes that we’ve might learn about by listening to somewhere we know, stereotypes that are presented in media, like movies, and they become the image of how we think things and people are, so they’re there. So when we’re rushing, and we encounter a situation, we pull all those shortcuts, and usually, it’s going to show up in a biased way. But when remindful is that opportunity, to slow down, to pause, to be aware, and always say the lean in and listen to that person in front of you. So now you’re going to be able to move to a space of empathy, quite honestly, and then act in the appropriate way based on the individual that you are encountering. And I will say that is so key. Because, you know, we like to put people in groups in boxes, as I call them. But in reality, every one we throw into one box, they’re not exactly the same. Even in that one box, there are differences. And so it’s about that ability, again, to just pause and slow down and recognize the bias and how they can show up. So it’s important in healthcare, because again, it can show up in terms of weight bias it can show up in, in health care how we hire, how we mentor all of those factors. So it can be based on gender identity and sexual orientation, or it can be around insurance status. It can be around physical ability, as I’ve mentioned, so all of these factors are places where unconscious bias, unattended bias can show up.
JM 40:17 Yeah, you know, it’s interesting listening to you, I was thinking how I was connecting the dots on how further important it is for us to continue working on our emotional intelligence, you know, because I think that, and also, you know, not only working on it, but acknowledging emotional intelligence as something worth investing in to develop, because I could see where that plays in with unconscious bias, hence, the response that you gave, and nobody’s perfect, right? Like, you know, I’m somebody who I feel like, naturally, I have emotional intelligence. But you know, that doesn’t mean in other areas I’m not lacking. So I was just that was what came up to my mind. And I wanted to ask with that about advocacy, because I think for those who may be the person that are feeling a little discouraged and unsure how to advocate in different situations, I know that there’s so many situations that we can’t provide an answer that would fit all right. So wanted to get your thoughts on maybe something you’ve done or something you’ve seen that’s just been assistive with advocacy in a health environment. Yeah,
BH 41:18 it’s important that one, I’d have to advocate for myself, I mean, quite honestly, I had a rheumatologist who, every time I went to go see her, she would tell me that I’m just going to get worse and worse. And so and then when I will come in and ask questions, she would be offended that I’m asking questions about my body, my health, my well being. And so she definitely wasn’t going to be a partner in helping me reach my optimal health. And so basically, I had to stand up to her, and just what I just said to you, so this is my body. This is my lobby. And so I’m going to ask questions, and I’m not going to shy away from asking those questions. And in some instances, there may be individuals who will shut down because of that, and not ask questions. And we have to be courageous enough to speak up for ourselves. And if we can do it, bring someone to the doctor’s office, who can do it for you, because you know, your body best, and you are the person who’s the expert on your body. And so I wouldn’t encourage those actions. If it’s helpful to have a list, take a list with you to the doctor’s office and ask those questions. Do not allow anyone to prevent you from asking those questions. And if they don’t want to answer the questions, find a new physician or find a new health care provider who will ask those questions. And so that’s really key. You know, it was during COVID. So I had to stick it out with her for a couple of years. Because it was not easy to find a new physician during the pandemic. But I did, I asked a question I say, you keep telling me, I’m going to get worse and worse, and I’m getting better and better. Can we talk about that. So ultimately, give us an opportunity for me to find a new flip position who wants to be a partner who wants to be on my team? And who wanted to support me in a way that’s going to lead to optimal health?
JM 43:16 I love that. Okay. Two things I wanted to share is it’s bringing me back to when we were talking about a doula, okay, because the doula can advocate for that person. And also, I didn’t realize that I attended a health situation with somebody that I know. And that person had, it was an impacted center that we had went to we went to an urgent care plus, that was also like an emergency room and at the same time, like it was close by, so there was like triaging going on. It was impacted. It was overcrowded. So that means that the person that I was with was waiting for hours to be seen and hungry, concerned. Okay. We were met. Finally, by the I think it was a nurse practitioner, I’m not sure somebody’s the provider. And the provider said, I understand that you’re anxious and told the person that he’s anxious and said it multiple times. But it was it felt minimizing it felt like because the person I was with was advocating for additional services or to be referred to be referred to specialists post, you know, and so the person was like, Oh, they’re not going to find anything. You’re just anxious. dismissing
BH 44:22 it. Listen, it’s in the concern. Oh, you’re fine. Go back home. That’s not a concern. Oh, you’re anxious. That’s all it is.
JM 44:31 Yes, exactly. me putting my Empath hat on. I was like, Okay, this provider is probably overwhelmed with how many people that he’s seeing and this person is probably trying to use this language to make this my friend feel like it’s not a big deal. Not to worry, however, it’s coming off. Not that way. I was there and you know, the person I was with was overwhelmed. And when that happens, people can shut down or blow up, this person would shut down. So then I advocate and I said no He’s not anxious. And we’re just trying to get the documentation so we can get a referral is what I said. And then so that provider I think, woke him up a little bit and was like, Wait, what am I doing. And so I felt a pause happened for that provider, the provider finished the communication left, and we were seen by different providers after that. So kind of interesting. But the reason why I bring that up is because the Hence your point, it’s, it’s totally understandable why you would go seek care, not alone, if you can. And I want to normalize that, because I think that could be beneficial, depending on who you choose to bring with you. You know, so that’s something I wanted to bring to the table. And, you know, it’s making me think of like, Oh, when I go to see the doctor, I like to be very independent, but maybe I should consider bringing somebody with me, like, if I’m feeling uncomfortable,
BH 45:45 exactly. And also, depending on exactly what you’re dealing with, if it’s a lot of information, if it’s news that might be a little disturbing, for years, good to have that support. And also someone who can hear the treatment options that may be needed, and they can discuss that with you. So you can make sure you didn’t miss anything. So and there are so many great physicians, I just want I do want to add out there to partner with who are concerned about your health care. In advocating for ourselves, we owe it to ourselves to find those physicians who are ready to pause, ready to listen and ready to partner with us. In terms of our health care.
JM 46:25 Definitely. And to that point, I did want to plug from the clients to provider relationship. When I sought out my PCP. I saw I was looking them up on some access resources, like okay, this person has good reviews. Yeah, I think let’s try it. And this person’s a nurse practitioner. And I’ve also seen other people like, oh, I want to see an actual doctor, not a nurse practitioner. I was like, wait, what does that mean? I’m like, I don’t understand. So I came anyways, because I saw that this person had good views. And I just wanted somebody who would be nice to me and care. And I I went and the person was amazing. So I want to just give a plug for nurse practitioners out there. Like I honestly haven’t had a better PCP than this person.
BH 47:06 I’m second that on the nurse practitioner. Fantastic. Just the time the listening and the compassion. Amazing. I haven’t nurse practitioner as well. And fantastic. Good. Yeah,
JM 47:17 I wanted to plug that on that side. Because like I want to, you know, lift people up to on the health care provider side, not just considering the client receiving side. So appreciate that. Okay, any resources that you want to shout out for listeners to check out
BH 47:31 I will say some of the national healthcare organizations like the American Heart Association, the American Diabetes Association, the March of Dimes, you can even go to the CDC, that org website, I think it’s that org, just lots of information about disparities about understanding disparities, but most importantly, about prevention, and things you need to know in terms of getting to and moving to your optimal health. So when we think about the AAA, the American Heart Association, for example, they have this thing called Know your scores, so know your cholesterol levels, know your blood pressure, know these things on a regular basis and, and monitored them. Because in reality is the simple things we do that makes a difference and get into that place of our own optimal health. So if we’re doing that physical activity, we’re looking at ways to reduce Ultra processed foods, and add more vegetables to our everyday meal consumption. And we’re getting those screenings like the our preventative screenings, whether it’s calling screening that you get starting at age 45. Plus, a little earlier, you have history and your family breast exam screenings that women are encouraged to do on a monthly basis, as well as the mammogram starting at I think it’s 40. So taking the opportunity to see your nurse practitioner on an annual basis just to get your checkup. And what we are seeing is that people younger and younger are being diagnosed with cancer. So So society is something we really need to pay attention to. And think about, what do we need to do differently or ourselves for our family, or our communities to kind of change this trend that we’re seeing?
JM 49:27 I love how thoughtful your responses are. Okay, switching gears to the workplace side, what would be three pieces of advice that you would give leaders when it comes to considering their employee health and where it meets the workplace?
BH 49:42 I would say one, maybe conduct a survey to understand what’s top of mind for your employees, and then look at ways you can provide information regarding those top of mind concerns. Behavioral Health, of course, is very important because we know that in our workplace communities now we are bringing so much to our workplace where is where we spend most of our time, right? But when we look out our windows, we look at the news, there’s just so much going on in our world, and it’s impacting us in so many different ways. So behavioral health, and providing access and tools to manage stress, to just deal with the ambiguity that we’re all experiencing right now, is also very beneficial. And then look at far ways where you can bring health and wellness into the workplace. Maybe there is a opportunity to focus on this kind of gaming initiative around measuring blood pressure over a three month time period or something, you know, have fun with it. But it’s also something that’s a very good indicator of overall health.
JM 50:51 Love that. Okay, our last question for today, what does an inclusive workplace look like to you? Oh, that’s
BH 50:58 my favorite topic. An inclusive workplace is really a workplace that one understands that diversity is way more than race, and that there are many dimensions of diversity. It can be being an introvert, like I’m an introvert. So that’s a dimension of diversity. And I had an aha moment that I learned that a lot of people who are introverts feel excluded in the workplace. So that became a new focus of my I talked about it all this time. But just recognizing that there’s race, there’s gender, the sexual orientation. But beyond that, there are things about our lived experiences and who we are, and whether we’re single parent, and we’re, whether we are caregiver, all of these things become a part of the diversity. So recognizing that. And once we recognize that we move to that place of inclusion, where we’re able to come together. And as I always say, learn about different cultures, communities, generations, work styles and perspectives. And doing it in a way that we create an understanding that we recognize both similarities and differences that we take the opportunity to really lean in. And as a result of that, we’re showing respect. And that’s really the key and inclusive environment or inclusive workplace community is one where we can share a show respect for the people around them. And I really love when I think about it, I pause and I earlier, actually, this was last year, two years ago, by so fast, an employee sent me an email and, and every year, it’s beginning of the year, I kick off with a learning session based on one of our campaigns. And it was about a week or so after this initial learning session. As she says, while I’m reaching out just to say that one I noticed everything that you’re doing for the LGBTQ plus community, she shared that she said, I am a transgender woman, and I feel safe here. And I feel like I can contribute. And when I think about an inclusive workplace community, I think about outcomes like that, where someone feels psychologically safe, and they feel it and they can articulate it. And I know when we think about the LGBTQ plus community, there are so many different perspectives. But I always beg the question, how does schorn respect or in towards another human being? Change what you believe? And if we can answer that question, we can get to a habit, an inclusive environment. I love that
JM 53:40 I wanted to let that breathe because it was such a great response. I did want to say that I feel like the theme that I hear in a lot of the responses and conversations and discussions we’ve had today. What I really appreciate is the contextual level of respect and learning about real people that you’ve given today. Because I think you know what you’re saying diversity is not just race, and you’re talking about workstyles and perspectives. And I think the more we focus on teaching about the context behind these different issues, the better and I so that was that I thank you so much for being here and being part of that. And hopefully we spread some seats today, to help bring awareness to things to help, you know, further equip the leaders and people and allies and CO conspirators, whatever you want to call those who want to make things better. So thank you for that is what I want to say. No, thank
BH 54:35 you. Thank you. It’s just been a wonderful conversation and very glad to just to shed some light a little bit on all these things related to health and it’s really about well being and how we show up as people and as human beings.
JM 54:51 Thank you for joining us today. As we continue to explore how we can enable diversity at work, follow us and get notified of our latest episodes. Also, we want to hear from you. Please like rate and review us on your podcast app or wherever you’re listening in. If you want to contact us, please visit diverseek.com – that is d i v e r s e e k.com. This episode was produced by Madhu Nair, edited by Cansin Dalak, researched by JOLENE MEI, music composed by Nicholas Lang and our production team includes Keisha Williams, Prashant Balbar and Maria Querina. I am your host JOLENE MEI and you have been listening to DIVERSEEK.
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