Episode 87 : Reevaluating Strategy and Value Propositions following the Affirmative Action Ruling

DK Bartley (DK) 0:01
So you want to not just solve for today, you want to solve it tomorrow, and you want to be consistent. So that it is a strategy that has impact and hopefully you learned something from it, your company becomes more multicultural you, you’re able to bring in other clients that mainly do not look or feel like your traditional clients. And then you bring in more revenue, God forbid. But the idea is to do something that has a method and a methodology behind it that you could track, you can assess, and you could judge what the impact is. That’s a strategy. It’s a tactic is just, you know, doing a little bit of this to him a little bit of that, and it feels good. Sometimes it feels great, right? But that does not mean that you’re solving a problem. And by having a strategy, you are actually solving a problem and you’re also learning things as you go through that process their data points around the why the how you know, and of course, the what that will benefit your company, benefit your employees and benefit yourself personally.

Jolene Mei (JM) 1:09
Hello, everyone. This is JOLENE MEI, your host for the DIVERSEEK podcast, where we talk with real people doing real work in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space. If you want to explore what people are doing right, what positive impacts are happening or even how positive changes can be done. You’re in the right place. We welcome you to join us.

JM (JM) 1:33
Hello, today we have DK Bartley with us. DK is the Global Chief Diversity Equity and Inclusion officer at WPP Hill and Knowlton strategies, DK is passionate about talent acquisition. He is a human resources professional and executive in diversity and talent acquisition and his expertise in leadership, marketing and global talent management. DK brings expertise in his strategic approach, carrying both a passion and expert eye in leading di teams programs and initiatives. Viewing di as a corporate and employee value proposition DK has received so much praise from those who has coached in the past. He has been acknowledged for his ability to spot raw talent, motivate a team and is seen as a leader that truly tries to bring out the best in each and every one of his team members. Fun fact, DK has been to over 140 countries. That’s pretty amazing. Also, please note all statements made by dk during the podcast are solely his own and do not express the views or opinions of his employer. And without further ado, welcome DK happy to have you here.

DK 2:32
I am excited to be here. Glad I could make it Yes, same

JM 2:35
same. I know you’re a busy person. And so I appreciate your time here today. Before we get started, I always like to bring this up. Feel free to share more about yourself and your background. Well

DK 2:44
listen, I’ve been all over the world at hired people all over the world. I’ve fired people all over the world. And I’ve worked with some of the best companies in the world. So I’m really proud about that. I know we’re here to talk about diversity, equity and inclusion. But it’s something that I really do believe makes a huge difference in not only company’s success from a revenue perspective, but also just people being a part of organizations and a true sense of belonging.

JM 3:12
Yes, definitely. I appreciate that. And I’m excited to learn and learn more about you. Because just talking to you, I can tell that you have very interesting ways of thinking and strategic ways of thought that I’m interested to see where we’re going to go with today’s conversation. And we are going to be talking about affirmative action today. So let’s start with that. Before moving forward. Is there anything you’d like to bring to awareness regarding the history of affirmative action? You

DK 3:36
know, I think it’s really important for people to understand that affirmative action did not happen because the government was trying to force companies or entities to hire people of color, it was created to equal the playing field, because what was happening is people of color, and other in franchise groups. Were applying for jobs applying to schools, and they were not getting accepted, even when they were more qualified. So they weren’t getting accepted in the schools. They weren’t getting hired. It was racism very bluntly, they weren’t behind because of the color of the skin. So what affirmative action did was it said, if you are a government agency, you have a responsibility to even the playing field by also hiring qualified people, not just black people, but qualified people that were non white. That’s essentially what it said. And because of that, a lot of people went got to go to Harvard that were black, that were not white. A lot of people got to go to some of the best schools in the world that they would not have without affirmative action. Because affirmative action says as long as the person is qualified, you have a responsibility to hire them if you have a space for them. So you know, that’s one of the things I think is really important to clarify. A lot of people think affirmative action is Oh, you must hire a person because of the color of their skin. And that’s really not what it says. The point was, you know, qualified people, even more qualified people were not given opportunities. And the government had to find a way to even the playing field. And even by implementing affirmative action, the playing field was not has not been, even there has been a thing called systematic racism. Yeah,

JM 5:25
definitely. I appreciate you talking about that. Because I do think that there is a confusion where when people hear affirmative action, they just think like about race, but it’s about equity. Right. And that’s the goal. We’re talking about equity. And you’re talking about belonging in your intro. So that was a good thing to start with. And then considering the affirmative action ruling that was made last year, right, that primarily was towards educational institutions. I’m curious, on your end, has there been, you know, there probably has been a major shift that you have noticed in your work that you wanted to bring to the conversation today?

DK 5:59
Yes, there absolutely has been major shifts, I think, now, particularly for companies that are concerned about bringing in people of color, that they are now looking at other ways that are about bringing pipelines into the company of diversity, you know, it’s now about well, what are the things that we see that work that bring in not our traditional types of professionals, whatever those traditional types are? It’s about me being quite purposeful, about your interview slates, meaning the people that are interviewing, but also your candidates slates, right? It’s not just looking at one place, it’s looking at looking at diversity sources, etc. So I find that to be really interesting, because what’s happening now is the companies are being quite purposeful in looking at different ways to create pipelines to become an employee of choice by attracting other people, women, people of color, the Hispanic Latinx. Community. Yeah,

JM 7:02
I do think that we are living in an era where the power has shifted a little bit between the employer and employee, right, at least in the United States. And it’s just kind of interesting to see how that’s coming in the mix here, too. I did want to speak a little bit more in specific on the backlash on di et feel free to share anything on that that you’ve seen. And you want to address here as well, as you know, I think that I’m curious to hear your thoughts on why we are seeing the layoffs, the layoff cycle for those in di positions as well.

DK 7:31
Yeah, I mean, it’s so interesting, because the bottom line is, post George Floyd, a lot of companies felt a sense of responsibility, around being quite purposeful. And not only having diverse slates of candidates, and having diversity within the organization, but ensuring that they had actual policies and procedures that supported that, right. And the result has been, you know, a lot of companies now seeing a difference in their demographics at the executive suite, right, the number as an example, the number of, of blacks on boards has gone up some 400% Since George Floyd, that’s a really powerful statement. So it’s really interesting now how, you know, three, four years later, the backlash has been politics has come into play, where our leaders are very much equating the concept of race as a negative thing, and not a positive thing. Diversity is all about, you know, the way you think it’s about equal in the playing field. It’s about inclusion, it’s about belonging, those are good things, right. And because of the nation’s politics, unfortunately, it’s weaponizing diversity, it is weaponizing. The fact that people are different, I mean, this whole conversation as an example, around what we’re being taught in schools, like you have to teach slavery, you have to teach about the black experience, when people start to now say, I am not going to have this book, right. So basically, I’m not going to have this opportunity for you to learn about this, because I want to pretend that it doesn’t exist. It’s a very scary thing. Now, mind you, the idea is that people in America, we have something called freedom and democracy. So I can read what I want to I don’t if a book is there, doesn’t mean that I have to read it. But if it’s there, I have a choice, right? That’s what it’s about. And I think what has happened is now you know, people because the reality, what George Floyd put up was the reality of racism, systematic racism, you have some people, not all that want to pretend that, you know, racism has not been a major factor in America. America is not a racist country. But America does have racism, let’s be very clear about that. And you can’t avoid it. So the backlash is that now a lot of people, companies, organizations, you know, individual contributors in these places are trying to rewrite history. by changing the narrative, and not putting the importance on being quite purposeful, about promoting diversity, equity and inclusion, and it’s very unfortunate, you know, what you’re realizing is the companies that are not having that approach are still being extremely successful, not just from a revenue perspective, but also their employee well being and the employee value proposition of why you should work there, and why you should stay there, and showing that those companies are thriving. But unfortunately, what some people want the narrative to be, is that, you know, having diversity is a negative thing, and not a positive thing. So that’s what’s happening now.

JM 10:39
Yes, thank you for explaining those specifics that you’ve given there. I completely agree. I think that also part of it is the terminology related to di as being weaponized, right. And there’s that difficulty there for those who are trying to work towards equity and inclusion and belonging, but having to navigate. Right? Okay, how do I say that? Or how do I make those connections there? So just quickly, like, you know, what are what would be like maybe two or three tips you would give those individuals who are trying to make those connections and understanding but maybe having to fight that battle of when politics enters the conversation, you know, any, any tips you’d like to give that them for those situations,

DK 11:16
you’ve got to focus on reality. And reality is that this world is made up of a variety of people, not just one monolithic group, right. So that’s number one, is to be realistic and focus on reality and the data that we have, that’s number one. Number two, is that diversity is always about the best ideas. It’s about looking at things from different perspective, seeing where you are now, where you want to be. And how do you get there, most times, you don’t get there alone, you get there with a variety of people. That’s number two. So it’s thinking about diversity of thought, and what that means, if you’re a corporation, how does that relate to you selling products, selling ideas, etc. And then lastly, but probably most importantly, is the fact that we are all responsible for DEI and the advancement of DEI, just because you’re you may not be a diverse person, a black person, a Latino, an Indian, etc. Asian does not mean that this doesn’t affect you. Right? It means that we’re all in this together. And you’re better off understanding the people that you work with the people that are around you, the people that are part of your community, that you live in the community that you visit, the community that you work in, you’re better off understanding them, than not understanding them and fearing them. And that is where I think so those are the three things. But that is where I think, particularly now in America, there’s this discourse around fair, you know, and people using other people’s differences to make the larger population feel fear that they’re going to be replaced, that they’re not going to have power, they’re not going to have influence, that’s just not going to happen in America, right? America will always be America. So those are the three things that I think are really important in understanding this, but I think provides a level of clarity around what we need to do to be a part of the solution, and not a part of the problem.

JM 13:15
I love that beautifully said. And with that. I wanted to ask you personally, like, you know, diversity, equity inclusion D I, you know, we know it’s bigger than those terms. Right. But what does that mean to you? Like, how do you see di as part of your approach? Like, how do you process that with your everyday?

DK 13:32
Excellent question. And clearly, because I do this every day, I have a great answer for it. For me personally, diversity, equity inclusion, it’s a part of who I am, right? I am the diversity poster child. I mean, I will be the first to say that. And I say that because I’ve seen both sides, I’ve met people that I’m the first black person that they’ve met, right? I’ve met people that they see me they think I’m much younger than I am. I mean, I’ve been doing this for a while. I have been in situations where I had to because I’m a senior executive, I had to stop people and say, don’t say that that’s a racist statement that you don’t even realize it is. I have taken people and brought them through the privilege walk and see how taking someone through a privilege walk, changes their life, and provides them with not only substance and empathy, but also blueprint for their own personal growth and their own development as a person as a wife, a husband, a sibling, a friend, etc. So I am that guy that everything I do. I’m always thinking about other. I’m always thinking about who’s not included. I’m always thinking about how to bring people in. I’m always thinking about temperament, you know, how do you reach out to somebody who clearly does not want to listen to what I have to say or listen to what someone else has to say. Diversity is part of my blood. It’s a part of who I am. That’s why I’m such a believer in not only the fact that it’s the right thing to do for companies, but it’s about generating revenue in organizations. It’s about providing evening the playing field providing competition. It’s about, you know, learning from as an example, I’ve created a reverse mentoring program, where we learn, the younger people are the ones that are mentoring the older people on or more tenured people on, you know, what Facebook is in the terminology, and you know, what their experiences were, and you know, why they want to drink soy milk, as opposed to regular milk. I mean, those sounds like crazy examples. But those conversations make differences, it takes away it goes back to that word, I said, the Fair of, you know, the older people having with younger people and not understanding, you know, how to use Tik Tok, and why everything’s that has an acronym, etc. So I believe that D and I can never be a negative, it can always be a positive, I believe that it’s innovation. And I’m not saying everyone’s gonna be like me, the DEI poster child. But I do believe that everyone should try to incorporate someone in their kind of friendship circle, that is not, you know, like them. And that I think, fosters some really great relationships.

JM 16:24
Hello, listeners, time for a quick break to give your brain a quick rest. If you have not done so already, and would like to support our mission, please follow our podcast, leave a review, or share this episode with someone you think would enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening in. And let’s get back to the conversation. Definitely, and, you know, you did mention a couple things in there when you’re talking about, you know, what you do for your work, too. So, now that we’ve talked about the personal side, let’s there the strategy in there, you said that, you know, we should view di being a strategy versus a tactic. So I’m gonna give you space for that, to explain more about your perspective with that. And I would encourage you to feel free to share maybe even like three perspectives that you would reframe, you know, maybe that you’ve heard of talking about di as a tactic versus a strategy. So how can we reframe those as

DK 17:17
well. So why this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Most people when you started, let’s talk America, right? Because I do this globally. And the beauty of this is that if you’re in China, DEI is very different than it is in the United States, when I’m in Japan, very different. But at its very core in the United States, DEI is around race and gender. So a lot of times people think, oh, you know, I’m a company, I have primarily white people that work in my company, let’s just go and hire a couple of black people, right? They hire a couple of black people. That’s it. Right? That’s not DEI, right? That is not a strategy. That is a tactic, because all you’ve done is done an action without a true kind of like beginning, middle and end, without an understanding of what the reasoning why is that you’re doing this, and the intended impact, and outcomes. So for me, it’s really important that when someone thinks about DNI and then trying to solve a problem, whatever that problem may be related to a diversity, equity and inclusion issue is that it’s well thought out, you know, there’s a reason why you’re doing this, you have an understanding of what the process is, and you have an intended outcome or problem you’re trying to solve. If you’re in a company, and you want to hire, you want to change your demographics, and you want to look different, and you want to be more of multicultural, you know, you don’t just want to go and say, hi, a couple of black people, you may want to now partner with some HBCUs. And these are historically black colleges, and have a pipeline of people coming into the company interview, you may want to do something in your community, where you have African American businesses, and use them as suppliers, you know, you may want to do programming by having maybe the couple or so African Americans you have in your company and say, you know, what does Black History Month meet you? Who would you like to hear from have speakers, etc. So it’s a variety of things to solve a problem with a beginning, a middle and an end, right, with a clear understanding of what the impact is. So you’re being strategic and you’re planning how you’re going to solve that problem of not having enough African Americans or having enough diversity in your company, whatever that diversity may be. And I use an example around hiring because it’s one of the most kind of visual things that people see. You know, in a company, you go into a company and you You can tell you know what the majority of the population is, as you go into that company. So you want to not just solve for today, you want to solve for tomorrow, and you want to be consistent. So that it is a strategy that has impact. And hopefully you learn something from it, your company becomes more multicultural you, you’re able to bring in other clients that maybe do not look or feel like your traditional clients. And then you bring in more revenue, God forbid. But the idea is to do something that has a method and a methodology behind it that you could track, you can assess, and you could judge what the impact is. That’s a strategy. It’s a tactic is just, you know, doing a little bit of this, doing a little bit of that, and it feels good. Sometimes it feels great, right. But that does not mean that you’re solving a problem. And by having a strategy, you are actually solving a problem. And you’re also learning things, as you go through that process their data points around the why the how, you know, and of course, the what that will benefit your company, benefit your employees and benefit yourself personally.

JM 21:11
Exactly. I loved everything that you shared there, by the way. And I think it’s important to talk about this because, you know, referencing earlier in our conversation, when we’re talking about affirmative action, and how you know, di terminology has been weaponized, I think it’s really important to have these conversations, where we consider to talking about where we continue talking about how we can do this work better. Right, and reviewing that. And so I really appreciate you outlining everything there because, you know, it’s we shouldn’t just be doing Oh, checkbox. That’s it. Right. But looking at as a strategy, as you mentioned, they’re now talking about affirmative action, again, post the ruling, I’m curious about, you know, are there any spaces that you’d like to, you know, bring to leaders who are listening or di practitioners who are listening, when considering their talent acquisition, you know, strategy, and like the employee lifecycle, anything you wanted to bring up there? Because I know, it’s primarily we’ve, that affirmative action, really, last year primarily talked about affirmative action in the education space, but it does affect and will affect or has been affecting organizations and corporations. So curious to hear what your thoughts are for that.

DK 22:17
So first and foremost, the 60 ruling that happened in June, basically, all it did was prohibit all colleges in the United States, from using race as a consideration in admissions. Right. And I’m gonna say that again, all it did was prohibit colleges and universities from using race as a consideration in admissions. It said nothing about corporations, it said nothing about the military, it was simply about colleges and universities. And why that’s important is because a lot of people are misinterpreting the entire ruling. And once again, we keep talking about it, but what people are doing a huge weaponizing that to promote fair, around corporations, right, and the people that are doing this, are the people that are either racist, or people who don’t believe in what affirmative action was, and the success that came from it, or people that just want to find yet another way to not advance people of color, right? That’s just the reality of it’s one of those, those, those three things that I’ve just said. So the takeaway is that if you’re a company, and you already have a diversity program, you already have corporate social responsibility around your hiring processes and procedures, you should stay the course you should not change anything in regards to what you’re doing. Particularly if you want to continue to have the success around DNI that you previously had, right, you should continue to make sure that diversity is tied to the values of the organization, right? Meaning that whatever your values are a good way to promote it. And a good way to advance it is through diversity, equity and inclusion, number one, but also, if you do this, right, you’re going to have customers clients, you know, new businesses that want to expand their business, and expand their offerings, whatever you’re solving for them, or whatever, you know, if you’re buying products, etc. People want more customers. That’s how you get more revenue. America is a capitalistic society. So you can’t do that by only focusing on one group or one monolithic organization. You need to diversify. It goes that word again. And you need to bring other people, other customers other clients into your fold. Right? That’s how you grow. That’s how you develop. That’s how you advance. That’s how you sell more. So I give you that example, because it’s important for you to be continuous in what you’re doing. You can’t go back and say well, now We’re not going to hire any more women, we’re not going to hire any more black people, we’re not going to hire any more Asians, you can’t do that what you should continue to do, because these people, excluding probably women, other diversities or the lesser part of the population, you have to go out there and be purposeful in finding them and attracting them, and also keeping them interested in your company. And that takes work, right. That’s the stuff of what we need to talk about, they’re not so many out there that oh, you know, they’re going to be banging down your door, you know, you will clearly attract talent no matter what company you are. But if you want to make sure you are getting the best of the best, you have to be a little bit purposeful. So my advice would be to CEOs too. And I’ve actually advised several of them to be to stay the course, and continue to do what you are doing. Because diversity is all about, you know, representing those unrepresented groups or underrepresented groups, and making sure that they know that your office, your factory, your place of work, your environment is a place where they can flourish. And they can bring their authentic self to work. And if you’re not going after them, they’re not going to know that just gonna

JM 26:15
let that response breathe a little bit, loved it, stay the course be purposeful, and I love again, you know, I mentioned it at the beginning, I look forward to and I have enjoyed just hearing how you speak because I can hear how you think when you share your responses, you know, and, you know, with that, I think I love that you talk directly to the CEOs that you also some of them you coach as well, but wanted to also bring in you mentioned university partnerships wanted to make sure to give us you know, some air for any other creative or just strategic opportunities, that companies have to make sure that they’re being equitable when it comes to recruitment and hiring. So I wanted to give space like that, because I know you’ve talked about some programs to me prior as well. Yeah,

DK 26:53
I mean, first and foremost, you know, when you’re partnering with a university, it shouldn’t just be a university because they’re in your backyard. I mean, if you are in let’s say, you’re in New York City, or whatever city you may be in, and there’s a university that’s close by, yeah, absolutely. You should figure out what their major is, you know, what, what do they do? Well, what are they known for? And absolutely, if they are known for what the work that you do, if your financial services company, and their tops with that, absolutely. Create a partnership with them, right, because that’s low hanging fruit. But I think even more importantly, you need to kind of survey all areas in the United States, right? Because what you want to do is attract talent that doesn’t necessarily know who you are, and know what you could do for them. And that generates a level of excitement, it gives people options, and makes them feel that they are wanting that somebody wants them isn’t it’s interested in them. It’s like dating, right? That analogy, but gonna biology in the sense that you know, out of the blue, you know, this company in Rhode Island is reaching out to people in California, Well, believe it or not, that actually may be a winning strategy, right? Because it says that we are looking for people to be a part of whatever we are building. So I think it’s important, going back to the whole concept of strategy, that you are selling yourself in a variety of places, not just in places that you’re comfortable with. As a company, I think that’s important. The other thing that I think is really important is to utilize technology, and innovation. I mean, now, you know, you there are tools that if you’re a recruiter, you can basically speak into a microphone and say, you know, I want the top 10 Ruby on Rails developers that are graduating college in the next 20 months. And you know, you’ll get that through artificial intelligence. When I started recruiting, you know, we had to go through a whole multiplicity of research tools to get the top Ruby on Rails, professionals, etc. So technology, and innovation is also important and needs to be a part of your strategy to attract talent, retain talent and develop talent. And then lastly, is, I think, just be really, Claire, you’ve heard me talk a little bit about this earlier, about what your values are as a company. And today, today’s day and age, people are not just going to companies because there’s a pension plan or, you know, you get stock options, whatever. This new generation is really about the values. What do you represent as a company? What do you stand for? What is your relevancy? And I think it’s important that that message is front and center, on your webpage or website. And it’s something that if you are going out and actively trying to attract talent or be an employer of choice, you clearly tie that in your messaging. So it’s front and center. From the very beginning. I do believe I’ve seen that make a huge difference. for corporations that I’ve advised and also corporations that I’ve managed their diversity and talent acquisition strategy. And it’s a differentiator, right, when someone who’s looking for a job or trying to build and start a career can come into an organization, and not only talk about what they can do for you, and why the job that they’re going to be doing this important, but how that jobs impacts the greater society, you know, the functionality of that corporation in that space with whatever you do, and also the long term kind of commitment that you’re making, and why right, because most companies are building something, trying to solve a solution, you know, they’re giving back etc. Having those things in today’s day and age be a part of the larger conversation. I think, particularly for CEOs. It’s a huge differentiator. So those are the three things great,

JM 30:51
great advice as somebody who also really values values, as well. So yes, I agree with that. Okay, random and interesting question I’m gonna throw out at you here, because you mentioned it a little bit prior to in our previous conversations. But how have you addressed concerns regarding reverse racism in the hiring process? Just, again, such an interesting question. I’m interested to hear your response. Okay.

DK 31:16
So several ways I can answer this. But the first one, I would say, is that most companies are not going to be intentionally racist or intentionally exclusionary, right, based on someone’s race. So when I hit things about reverse racism, the first thing is like, Okay, what’s really going on here? Right? I understand that racism is also about power, and all of that. So when someone says, There’s reverse racism, it’s like, do you really understand what you’re saying? You’re basically saying that because of your color, right, someone is trying to do something to you, and make you feel less than because of your race. And if you’re the majority person, right, it’s like, it’s very difficult for that other race or that other person to have the power, when theoretically, the reason why racism exists is because you have the power, right? So it goes into a whole conversation of like, what is this really about? Is it really about reverse racism? Or it’s because you feel that, hey, you may be inadequate, and someone else is getting a spot? Because, you know, they have the skill sets? And because they’re different rates, etc? All of that, like, what is this really all about? So that’s my number one thing, when people talk about reverse racism, let’s really understand, do you know what you’re saying? So that we can really solve what the bigger problem is that you have an issue with? And then I think the second thing around reverse racism is, you know, just understanding the whole concept of, if you’re going to talk about reverse racism, that means that there may be an initial race problem at your company that needs to be addressed, right. And very often, you’re not addressing it. And you’re just making it worse, because you’re saying that there is reverse racism. So let’s really figure out is there something systematic, that from a race issue that we need to address before we get to reverse racism? Because that means that racism has to exist first before you can reverse that? Right? That’s number one. And I think if you use those two things, or those two analogies, usually, and I’ve dealt with this kind of before, it either sparks a discussion where, you know, I’ve had courageous what I call courageous conversations. And we talked about well, why is it you know, that you are against us? Saying that we want to go to bring more women into the company, right? What’s the problem with that? Really, you know, what is that really about? And you discuss it, and you do it in a safe space and open forum. And you’d be amazed all the other things that you find out not only about that employee or those employees, but about what’s going on within the organization, right, particularly when, you know, I’m very big on leadership, setting the tone, when your leaders are saying, we want to have more people that are you fill in the blank, right? And then the employees are saying, No, we don’t want that, well, then that’s an issue because once again, you’re trying to create an organization that’s really monolithic. And in today’s day and age, that’s not what democracy is about. That’s not what most corporations are about. And maybe this is not the organization for you. If your whole thing is just your own safety, right, you know, you have to and I know this is gonna sound crazy, but do unto others who haven’t do unto you. And that is not just about protecting yourself, but about protecting everyone and equalling the playing field.

JM 34:50
That last part of that statement was really great. A great summary of that response there. You know, not just protecting yourself protecting everyone. Okay, so lastly for the strategy part here It’s 2024 What three takeaways would you like to leave leadership with? When it comes to how they consider strategic investments in their corporate and people strategy moving forward? Number

DK 35:11
one, invest in training. I am a big proponent of training, not just for DNI, but how do you manage people? How do you promote people? How do you integrate technology? I’m a big proponent of training. So if I’m a CEO, President, a managing director, might end what advice to you is invest in training, whatever you will, whether your company is 10, or a company of 200 invest in training, it’ll make a huge difference to you. That’s number one. Number two, is, you know, think about I mentioned that a little bit, but the purpose of the company, right? Yes, we’re all it’s a capitalist society, we’re all here to make money. But what else are you trying to do? Right? Are you trying to be the best at x? Are you trying to expand globally, etc. Think about whatever those things are, and make that a part of your communication strategy. In your messaging, a lot of companies don’t do that. A lot of companies are very vanilla, in how they communicate, they don’t want to say anything that, you know, the press will run with and you know, it’s out of their comfort zone, I truly do believe that being able to understand what else you stand for, other than bringing in revenue is huge. And there are some companies that do it well, Apple does that really, really well. It really talks about their products and their role in the world. And you know, think differently, and things of that nature, those little nuggets leave a lasting impression with you. And when you buy those products, not only do you feel that you’re a part of something bigger than what the product is. But there’s a sense of completion, a sense of accomplishment. I’ve heard this several times when you know, I do a lot of brand studies with people, when we talk about brands and so forth. But that is huge, tying a message, your mission, your values, to your organization, and where your company is going. And then the last thing I think is really important, is rewards. Rewards is not just in compensation. It’s also in stretch assignments, and having people travel and see other parts of your organization. It’s about investing in training, and giving people who otherwise may not be exposed to certain technologies, certain skill sets, certain methods, methodologies, management styles, an opportunity to learn and to grow, and to become more well rounded with what they do. And I believe if it’s what they do, then how they can contribute to your company and your organization. And the other exponential benefit with that is that even if it’s sometime they leave your organization, they will leave, hopefully, they won’t leave. But if they do, they will leave with a sense of accomplishment. And a feeling that their time there was not just about financial gain, but about also about their personal and professional development and advancement. And that I believe, is priceless. Because then other people, that word of mouth, that talk on the internet on various websites will get back to you exponentially. Because nowadays, it’s not like it was 20 years ago, the first thing people do when they’re looking for a job or looking to change jobs is, you know, what are people saying about the organization? What do people get paid? Right? What are the other benefits about working there? You know, do you promote very quickly? Do you have employee resource groups? Do you have a corporate social responsibility? Program? Is there a foundation? Do you have corporate giving there, all these other things that come into play other than the job, the salary and the benefits? So those are the things that I think would be really rewarding and worth investing in focus on

JM 38:53
a lot of that, you know, I feel like you think, live and breathe and speak in strategy and value proposition because I can hear so much value seriously, like everything that you shared the takeaways, I could see how well it aligned, just like in a modern way of strategy, considering value, right? Like, what are things in all levels with that, so I can really hear that through your, your response there. So thank you so much for that. And it’s time to close our conversation. I have one last question for you. And that is, what does an inclusive workplace look like to you?

DK 39:25
What an inclusive workplace looks like is two things. It’s really actually moreso of what they’re aspiring to be right? Most companies di is not a science, let me be very clear. So it’s not like you know, doing finances where one on one has to equal two. So a lot of that is the goodwill efforts, you know, a company going out there and being really purposeful and saying we’re gonna do this, we’re gonna change the world and be the place where everybody wants to work and you know, if all of our employees are going to be happy, guess what? There’s nothing wrong with having that aspiration. maybe a little bit unrealistic, because that’s just not the way life is. But the idea that you would want to go out there, and you would do this, that this, this, this, this, those are all good, we’ll efforts and those things, all should be counted, we should know what all those things are, you know, if you’re going to plant trees, if you’re going to clean up the highway, if you’re going to give a scholarship, if you’re going to, you know, grab an an employee resource group, you know, all of these things need to be known. And I share that with you, because all of these things need to be put on your website, there should be a social interaction page on your website, where people go, people are not stupid, you know, they can look and they could feel and they could see, I’m going to say it be as a mile away. So if you just have stock photos on your page, people are going to be like, I seen that photo before, right? There. 50,000 other companies that have that this is I’m giving you real talk now, because I’ve had this before, but if you’re that company that has their real employees, and that’s why like young startup companies do really well in attracting great talent. Because the some of these companies will put, you know, we do an annual picnic where we just celebrate our employees every summer. And they will put pictures of those that picnic up there. And that is priceless. Because, you know, it’s their employees there. It’s quite genuine, because usually, there’s a uniform smile statement, look, feel something they all have in there, there’s something unifying about the picture, or pictures, right. So all of these things are good faith efforts, and inclusively looks like people doing good faith efforts and documenting it, and being able to see it on a webpage or in research, etc. So that’s number one is being able to communicate what you’re doing around diversity, equity and inclusion, and you will be able to see the inclusion, right. The second thing, which I think is really, really important is to have goals, right? Inclusivity is about goals. It’s saying, we don’t have a you don’t have to say we don’t have actually, you need to say this is where we want to be, right, we want to have more women, we want to have more African Americans, we want to have more Latin X people, we want to have more people on the autism spectrum, we want to give back to our community. Those things are all a part of inclusivity. And it’s about having goals. And then the last one, which I think you know, it’s kind of like a no brainer. But measure success, right? You know, have that diversity report that shows your year over year, Google does this really well. My good friend, Melanie that runs diversity over there, I give her kudos all the time, because they show year over year, how they’re growing, how they’re advancing, and how they’re making a difference. And I give you those nuggets, because it’s not always about succeeding and getting it right. You know, going back to how I started answering your question, it’s about your process and your kind of energy to say, well, this is my good faith effort. And guess what happens with the good faith effort. If you keep doing it, more than likely you’ll succeed, you may succeed more than you expected, you may succeed a little bit less, but there’ll be incremental gains that you could measure and say, we’ve done this correctly. And this feels good. But more importantly, we’ve gone from here to there. And this is how, and that’s inclusivity. Right? Because you’re adding things you’re adding people you’re adding processes, you’re adding clients, you’re adding businesses, you’re adding structure you’re adding, you’re being inclusive, you’re including other things, in the process, in the mission in the values in the statements, ie in the company,

JM 43:45
I love that you mentioned incremental gains, because for me, that’s something that I’ve learned to really value just incremental gains, like in the past couple of years, you know, it’s made a lot of people reflect and that’s something that I truly just value, you know, now so it means something, you know, we are moving forward, we are growing. So, just again, thank you for all of your strategic answers, including the last one do but yes, thanks so much for being here. And I truly appreciate learning from you today. Thanks for your time,

DK 44:13
anytime I can’t wait to see the finished product truly enjoyed talking with you.

JM 44:18
Thank you for joining us today. As we continue to explore how we can enable diversity at work, follow us and get notified of our latest episodes. Also, we want to hear from you. Please like rate and review us on your podcast app or wherever you’re listening in. If you want to contact us, please visit diverseek.com – that is d i v e r s e e k.com. This episode was produced by Madhu Nair, edited by Cansin Dalak, researched by JOLENE MEI, music composed by Nicholas Lang and our production team includes Keisha Williams, Prashant Balbar and Maria Querina. I am your host JOLENE MEI and you have been listening to DIVERSEEK.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai