Chief Diversity Officer
Aisha Losche (AL) 0:01 There’s a lot of opportunity for systems that we don’t realize when we’re built with roadblocks or speed bumps that don’t need to be there. And then taking the steps to get them removed versus waiting for someone to ask. And so that’s the proactivity that we take to the work that has kind of shifted my view over the years. And really thinking to the point of like user experience of someone has to click a million times to get to something like that not necessarily accessible for making sure that our our buildings are up to accessibility standards. So as we’re building up new ways, are we making sure everything has to build an ADA standard, but what can we do above Ada, like what other accommodations and things can we make, to folks don’t have to ask and I think that is something that I have taken very close to heart and partnering with all of our functions and our teams to ensure that that’s what we’re thinking about is the inclusion lens and not something that we have to do after the fact to retrofit
Jolene Mei (JM) 0:57 Hello, everyone. This is JOLENE MEI, your host for the DIVERSEEK podcast, where we talk with real people doing real work in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space. If you want to explore what people are doing right, what positive impacts are happening or even how positive changes can be done. You’re in the right place. We welcome you to join us.
JM 1:21 Today we have Aisha Losche with us. Aisha is the chief diversity officer at Draper and co founder of Cardinal coaches. She is passionate about inclusion and the ability to reframe and redesign workplaces for the future. I used to provide strategic leadership for inclusion, diversity, equity and access programming in her role, and has more than 15 years of experience in leadership positions, collaborating with teams towards facilitating systemic inclusion. She is also a certified executive and leadership coach, Mental Health First Aider and qualified administrator for the intercultural Development Inventory. And the 2023 Cambridge’s Chamber of Commerce inspire awardee Aisha has been described as a dynamic leader truly passionate about her work and the people. And also I Isha also reads and or listens to 40 to 50 books a year. Please note all statements made by Aisha during the podcast are solely her own, and do not express the views or opinions of her employer. And without further ado, welcome, Aisha. So happy to have you today.
AL 2:21 Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.
JM 2:22 Yes, same. I’m excited to see where this conversation goes today. But before we start, let’s talk about you and give you space for that. So feel free to share about yourself and your background.
AL 2:32 Sure. So this year, I finished 62 books before the end of the year to kind of piggyback on my intro, but you did a really great job introducing me. So there’s not much else to say beyond I’m a mom of three. I have also ran for and been elected in my town. I’ve been a town councillor for about six years as well as volunteer in town government. And I used to be an avid peloton rider. I actually did a ride today. And it was not as fun as it used to be. But I’m gonna get back into it. I went to Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Connecticut for my undergrad, Curry College for my MBA, then also have a dei certification from Cornell online that I received in 2018.
JM 3:11 Yes, there’s so much that you’ve done. So thank you for sharing a little bit more about yourself. And I loved hearing about, you know, pushing the envelope with 62 books this year. So that’s great. I think I should probably start counting how many books that I actually go through in the year two, you could kind of motivating me a little bit. Okay, so to start us off, something you mentioned to me that I appreciated the wording that you had here was that you mentioned that there is a gap opportunity that idea provides that goes beyond compliance and legal. So tell us more about that. And feel free to just share what you think, you know, make sense here. Absolutely.
AL 3:44 And I’m gonna give a shout out to Ronnie Dickerson steward of oh, hey, coach, she was the one that to first use that word. And we are working together. And so I want to give credit where credit is due. But within the idea space, or dei or E div, or kind of whichever way your acronym falls within your organization, there’s a lot of opportunity for us to continue to grow, right. It has been new for a lot of organizations, and they had come at it from a very compliance way, right? We want to make sure that we are not being discriminatory or we’re not leaving folks out. And so it started that way. But there’s so many other aspects of just allowing your employees to feel seen and heard by having a pride ceremony or having, you know, a candle remembrance for Trans Day of Remembrance in our office or having Juneteenth be a day that we celebrate with lots of food and laughter and fun. And so I think there’s those are the opportunities when some folks think about Dei, we focus so much on kind of the compliance, we look at the metrics and see if people are staying or leaving or coming or going. But I think there’s a lot of opportunity as well to have that holistic approach to the work. And that’s what we try to do both in my consultancy and my full time job. Yes, thank
JM 4:51 you for that foundation. There was that response? And you brought up a good point actually, for the acronyms. For those who may not know idea we’re talking about today. Is ide a Inclusion, Diversity, Equity and accessibility, which we’ll be talking about accessibility next. So that’s a good segue. So first, let’s start with definitions. Because I always think that’s good to start with. So how would you define accessibility? And how do you see this concept intersect with the rest of di So diversity, equity and inclusion? Absolutely.
AL 5:19 So for me, accessibility is vastly important. And it’s implied in some spaces when you have the eye and inclusion. So we want to make sure that all lenses of diversity are in, in the strategy or in the outlook of the of the organization. But for us, I brought it out front, because we have a lot of growth to do in that space. As far as having our tools be accessible. We work in the national security space. And so there are some things that we just can’t have due to the security of the tools. And so we wanted to make sure that we were creating a accessible workplace organization not just physically for our campuses, but also for our digital and remote users are having the tools that they need to be able to do their jobs. And so accessibility is just really having access to be able to do your job well, to not be hindered by some of the things that weren’t taken into consideration at first. And so that is why we brought the A to the forefront and kind of re aligned our strategy and our name for our office.
JM 6:19 Yes, love that. And I think it’s great that you’re talking about tools, because a lot of these tools and platforms we use every day in the workplace, but I think it’s important to bring this accessibility awareness piece to the lens here. And then on top of the DDI, you know, awareness pieces that we’re bringing, and how that, you know, really affects the workplace. So with that you were mentioning some tools, I wanted to just, you know, start with this. So can you list off a few common tools or platforms that you might even use, that you’ve seen broaden opportunities and access for teams in the workplace, just so people are aware of them? Absolutely.
AL 6:51 So one of the things we did initially was just do an audit of what our current tools can do, that we may not be aware of. So we are Microsoft organization. And there were a lot of tools within our Microsoft ecosystem that could be turned on and shared. And so for teams calls, there’s captioning that’s available, making sure that folks are knowing about the text to talk or the zoom abilities, or the updating the colors. So we really did a full assessment of the tools that we had and make sure that we were sharing the information about the accessibility there. And then in certain cases, we’ll get additional licenses and tools. Another one that we’ve used zoom techs, and other screen readers that we’ve made available for our folks. And so really, we’re taking the approach of hearing from our people, making sure that we have the tools that they need, especially working with an engineering, some tools, we just don’t know what they are yet, or they might have to be very niche. And so we created an updated accessibility portal. Instead of trying to just like find who your HR VPs and sending an email, we created a dynamic kind of help desk, if you will, of kind of putting in your request, making it on the first page of our portal to so people can ask for accommodations very quickly. And that was just again, making it so that it doesn’t seem like there’s a penalty or a hindrance much like if I need Adobe, any Adobe Creative tool, I put it in a work text ticket. So if anyone needs any additional tools, they would do the same. And try to destigmatize the need for asking for accommodations within the workplace.
JM 8:21 Hello, listeners, time for a quick break to give your brain a quick rest. If you have not done so already, and would like to support our mission, please follow our podcast, leave a review or share this episode with someone you think would enjoy it. Thank you so much for listening in. And let’s get back to the conversation. Well, I love that just already having kind of like an embedded communication pathway for advocacy that’s just like, Here you go. It’s just part of the system here. So that’s really awesome to hear. And you’re mentioning it a little bit with, you know, the like text to speech, and so forth. I’m someone who like now I need to watch movies with subtitles, and like I just can understand so much more with them. But I wanted to ask for you. Are there any little tweaks and tools that you’ve used that maybe people aren’t even aware of that they have accessibility to to customize their platforms to better fit their needs? That’s
AL 9:14 a great question. So for me, I have glaucoma, which is a visual impairment. So for me personally, I like to make sure that all my settings are in dark mode on my phone, on my Outlook, having kind of dim lighting in my office also helps. So those are the ones that work out to me, I would recommend, you know, do a quick Google search on any of the tools that you have with the web accessibility guidelines that have been set forth for different websites are really helpful. And so most employers and organizations have tried to meet those standards. And so just knowing what’s available to you, I think is the first step but those are the ones that I kind of took into place and much like you captions on my Zoom calls captions on my Netflix like I use it any chance I get just to help with like my auditory comprehension of what’s happening in real time.
JM 9:58 Yeah, definitely relate so that the auditory comprehension sometimes like the background noise for me, if there’s background noise, it’s hard for me to like process for some reason. So like, that’s super helpful. I love that we’re talking to this level of detail here. So yeah, thank you for those very specific details and what you’ve also used for yourself as well. I did want to go back because you’re mentioning also working in national security, as well. And I think this is another layer that we could add to this conversation, which is like, so my question is, how has your perception and conceptualization of accessibility changed throughout your career journey coming from like, you know, I know you’ve worked in media into and now into national security? I’m just curious. Yeah.
AL 10:39 I mean, that’s a great question. I think, for me, just growing up, and having a better understanding of what accessibility looks like, why folks need accommodations made, and having it be equitable, right. And so a lot of things are built from an ableist lens that I didn’t fully appreciate. And so I think, as I’ve gotten more strongly aligned to this work, doing research, understanding, hear from hearing from our people, again, reading books, and listening to podcasts, etc, there’s a lot of opportunity for systems that we don’t realize were built with roadblocks or speed bumps that don’t need to be there, and then taking the steps to get them removed versus waiting for someone to ask. And so that’s the proactivity that we take to the work that has kind of shifted my view over the years. And really thinking to the point of like user experience, if someone has to click a million times to get to something like that’s not necessarily accessible, or making sure that our our buildings are up to accessibility standards. So as we’re building up new ways, are we making sure everything has to build to an ADA standard, but what can we do above Ada, like what other accommodations and things can we make, to folks don’t have to ask? And I think that is something that I have taken very close to heart and partnering with all of our functions and our teams to ensure that that’s what we’re thinking about is the inclusion lens and not something that we have to do after the fact to retrofit. Yeah,
JM 12:01 that’s such an interesting way that you put that and this is going along the lines of when I’m thinking about safety, right? Sometimes I personally have come across situations where like, maybe a safety standard was seen as like an obstacle, but then you know, there’s also situations where I’ve seen, like safety standards be actually an opportunity. So I know this can get really like abstract here. But I’m gonna bring it back to more tangible cases here, have you? Or if you can provide an example or just explain or describe however you choose. But where have you seen, like safety also kind of intersect with accessibility and platforms? Was there a time that, like, you’re like, Oh, this is how we this is a platform. And this is how we use a platform to provide more access while also being safe about it?
AL 12:48 I mean, that’s a great question, because especially in our work, we take our cybersecurity and our technical information very seriously. And so in the workplace, we have been having to vet and ensure that they make certain requirements, which can be a hindrance to the accessibility of something that might be, you know, completely available within kind of a personal ecosystem. And you can go and anyone can access it globally, we wouldn’t be able to have those accommodations made within our network security. And so really thinking more broadly around, how can we be creative? How can we work alongside the employee? What other things how do we get to yes, is really how we’ve been approaching this work. And so the safety level is really around the psychological safety, quite frankly, of being able to ask, making sure that folks know that they have allies within them work and that we’re working together to get to the outcome and get to the yes, that’s the level of safety that we think through in addition to kind of our own kind of data security and cybersecurity in our space. Yeah,
JM 13:49 you know, it’s interesting that you bring this up, because I’ve been kind of juggling, while I’m listening to between, like safety, access and advocacy. And I know you mentioned earlier, a great like, just, you know, kind of built in pathway for people to communicate and advocate for you, as you said, accommodations or any needs that they have. So that’s like super interesting to bring in here. I wasn’t expecting that to be part of this conversation. But super interesting to consider. Because with that, I wanted to ask for you like if you had an example, because I think sometimes for those who might be struggling with advocacy, like listening to someone else’s experience helps them. So do you have like a time that you came across an obstacle in your career anytime in your career that you advocated for? And it gave you more opportunity and or access to succeed and your job? What was that like?
AL 14:34 Sure. And so this one, it was an accommodation, not medically, but I had started having kids about 10 years ago, and I needed a way and an accommodation to work from home. And my son will be 10 next month and so working from home was not the norm back in 2014. And so I had to kind of feel comfortable, right? How about psychological safety to have that conversation with my manager, build the business case? kind of prove that When working from home, my work was probably better because less distraction and shorter lunches. And, and so working through that I kind of made that a boundary through my work. And I haven’t worked five days in an office ever since. Just because that’s worked best for me and my family. And also, just from my workstyles perspective, I am much more productive from like a nor diversity perspective being in a quiet space that cannot be interrupted throughout the day. And so that was something that I spoke to, I didn’t go through the formal accommodation process. And sometimes you don’t have to write just talking to your manager, if you can get to yes, most HR teams are lined unless it was something completely, you know, that my boss was letting me move to Tahiti, and, and work two hours a day. But within reason, and within kind of the confines of the you know, the overall employee handbook, it was really impactful for me to have that flexibility for my family, but also for myself. And so that was one accommodation that I had to advocate for, from an early onset. And that was new to me, because I hadn’t had to advocate for myself before. And I think having someone else to take care of help doing that. But I would also encourage folks without having that, that caveat of children, because sometimes people feel like that is the way to get things, I think no matter what you need, you should be comfortable enough to ask your manager or your your HR business partner, whomever that you partner with to get the accommodation you need, because it’s only going to help you be more productive and effective. And that’s what the company ultimately wants.
JM 16:23 Yes, I love that. And, you know, I’m continuing to consider what you said earlier about psychological safety as well, anything, you know, that’s a great point for teammates and employees to inform their companies of like, Oh, hey, this is an area that we can focus on for more equity or for more access, or that we need to consider from a safety standpoint. So keeping those like pathways of communication open is just so important. Listening to you is like just further confirming that internally to me. So I wanted to ask, like, on the other side, as someone who you know, like were wasn’t an are in leadership positions, like what factors have you seen, really helped with that, like, psychological safety piece, where, you know, it would encourage for those, you know, this is for the managers who are listening to hopefully encourage a safe place so that, you know, their employees feel more open to advocating for themselves, because I know for some advocating, it’s harder for some than others.
AL 17:12 Absolutely. So for folks who are people, managers, really listening and being active listeners, and then actioning, on what you actively heard, is extremely important, and giving your teammates the autonomy to get their things done without kind of that old school mentality of kind of being right there next to each other in the trenches, because not all roles require that. And I think there’s an opportunity for us to reimagine what we just learned over the last three years, that you can have record profits and record kind of outcomes for some, you know, industries over a long period of time through a global pandemic, quite frankly, and people are able to get things done. And so for people, managers to kind of try to think about the future of work, try to think about the actual outcomes that you’re you’re trying to get to, without kind of harkening back to the days of yesteryear, I saw a LinkedIn post the other day about there’s the death to the holiday party that we’ve kind of like, let go of kind of the norms that we used to have. And, and for some, it’s a relief. And for some, it’s sad. But I think as we think about the future of work is and this is part of the inclusion like what does that balance? What is that openness look like going forward, so folks can have the best of all worlds. And so from that perspective, really, for managers to set expectations to be open and honest. And if it’s a no to kind of give the transparency of why so people can understand Brene Brown has always said clear as kind. And so when managers are thinking about giving feedback, or having to have difficult conversation, being extremely clear, will help, unlike that was being extremely clear will be extremely helpful for your employees to understand the why and how their role fits into the overall strategy and goals of the organization.
JM 18:52 Yes, completely. I’m definitely a believer that, you know, compassionate transparency is so important for success. So yeah, just great, great way that you broke that down. All right, we’re gonna switch gears here. I know, we talked about psychological safety, communication, advocacy. But I wanted to switch gears to data collection, which I know you said that you like data. So feel free to have fun with this question. So what are some ways this is a big broad question so that you can decide how you want to answer it. But what are some ways you and your team have collected and utilize data to inform your ideas strategy? Right. And
AL 19:25 so Draper is in a really unique place where we are embarking on a 10 year strategy that took place to get underway probably six weeks after I got there. And so with that, we will be collecting more data going forward to understand our full populations. So annually, I report out on kind of where we netted out from a retention hiring promotion perspective for underrepresented talent and underrepresented talent is defined within that report as racial groups and gender but I did call out within the report that we don’t collect, you know, enough information or any information rather about our LGBTQIA plus due to the limitations of our tool, as well as we do collect veteran and disability data points, but we don’t have the nuance to say, you know, 30% of our disabled population was promoted, right? It’s not kind of attributable back to being able to have some data points about how our inclusion strategy for disability is working. If we can’t kind of have the nuance within the data. I think that’s where dei is going. It’s less about I have, you know, the demographics that match the US Census, because that’s overarching ly changing every day. I think it’s really thinking about how these populations are moving through your organizations, how are they being supported, where’s the equity coming in, not every underrepresented group needs a workshop or leadership programs, sometimes it’s just sponsorship and access to the roles. I remember, in my previous time working with advertising, we were looking for a senior role, and someone was like, well, there aren’t a lot of diverse people who could fit this role. And I go, Well, there’s probably a lot of diverse people who could fill the role, but had never been given the opportunity to shine to have that sweet, sweet opportunity. So we should be looking, you know, at a executive level, which is an executive creative director, ECD level at that point, because there probably have been always been ready, but had been kind of overlooked and unseen. And so I think there’s an opportunity within the data metrics to find that nuance, the University of Virginia has a leading diversity course, they also took last fall. And they talked about the nuance with a professor from MIT and University of Michigan, that sometimes if you look at your data, and there’s no bias, there’s probably a higher chance that there is bias, because you’re not looking at it with it with enough nuance. And so for me, collecting the demographic information, collecting the all the different pieces, as we get new tools as opportunities to collect, you know, veteran status as opportunities to understand that folks are first generation and then it’s really then to hearing from our people that come from these different walks of life, what they need to be successful at work, and then partnering with our people function to make that happen. Because working within the organization that I work in, and the kind of the cars that we have there decades long kind of missions, to help our national security and to keep us all safe. And so the more ability that we have to retain the amazing talent that we’re investing in, honestly, the better the safety is for us and our allies. And so, I know that sounds big and grand, but that’s really kind of the crux of the work that we do. And so I think the data to be able to inform us to make sure that we’re giving our people what they need is vitally important.
JM 22:23 Yeah, completely. Actually, I really appreciated how detailed that was. And big that was, and how you were describing the process. And what that really means I actually wanted to send her in on something really nitty gritty, but I’m just personally curious about, because I think it has a lot to do with, you know, the collection piece, I was curious if you had any notes for like what you saw most success out of for like the mode and or timing of data collection, just wanted to throw that at you
AL 22:47 there isn’t, you know, a sweet spot or a silver bullet. And I’ve been to enough diversity conferences and sat with other CDOs that we’re all kind of deciding what works best. So self ID opportunities throughout the year are super helpful having reminders has been given people some additional time to go into the tool. Because sometimes folks, once they get hired, they never go back in Update. So there’s an opportunity that you probably have moved, right, so all your mail is going to the wrong house, you may have got a spouse or a partner. And so we always want to make sure that there’s opportunities, quick reminders, kind of like a checkup on data, and then making it so that it’s giving the people the why on why we’re asking for the information, right, it’s not to be punitive, or to kind of have a big brother lens, it’s really for us to be better, it’s really an opportunity for us to understand our population at a nuanced level, to then be able to give back and create policies, get better benefits, create programs, if necessary to help enable our people success. And so really, that is I think, a huge part of a why having the cadence of letting folks know that it’s okay to share. But the having the constant reminder, because things change, especially from a disability perspective, when you think about other lenses of diversity, that’s one of the few that you can kind of get into at any point in time. And so wanting to make sure that we have the, again, the the culture and inclusion strategy, so folks feel comfortable sharing that information with us, and know that it’s for their benefit.
JM 24:19 Yeah, completely. Just super interesting to hear. You know, like, I think it’s important for those who are maybe don’t collect data to hear this other side of like, this is actually what we’re trying to do with it. Right. So thank you so much for going to detail about that. And I know you’re also mentioning, you’re considering like the different parts of the employee lifecycle when we were first starting to talk about that. So I wanted to bring that into the conversation here, especially access and feel free to share what if anything that you’ve collected and or implemented via from what you found in data applies to any of this feel free to share as well, but I’m just really looking at like, Okay, how are we continuing to encourage like the inclusion and equity piece through considering this access lens that we’re adding to the conversation here. So, employee lifecycle for those who don’t know, we’re taught looking alike attraction, recruitment, onboarding, development, retention and separation. So throughout all of that, so considering, you know, access throughout this cycle here, let’s break it down. What are some strategic thinking points you have in your mind when you’re considering the attraction or commitment and onboarding phase of the employee lifecycle, when we’re talking about access and feel free if data applies to any of your answer as well, partnering
AL 25:24 with our talent acquisition team has been vital to the inclusion recruitment strategy. And so for us, we are getting a new tool. So with that, we will have much better data collection pieces to speak of right now, it’s the standard kind of information that you would have in kind of any government contract or any employer, quite frankly, within the US. But from an inclusion and accessibility lens. I think what we’ve been doing from an action perspective, less than data is making sure that on our website, that folks know that if you need an accommodation for the interview that we’re, you know, we welcome it and that we ask people to let us know as soon as possible. And we will make that accommodation. When you get onboard as a we’ve attracted you to our website, which we’re updating, right to make sure that we have the right accessibility, that the colors are visible to all and that people can click and navigate the website, through, you know, at their own pace, and with all the tools that they need. So that’s one thing that we’re currently looking to revamp, the next from recruitment spent is making those accommodations through the interview process. When we’re thinking about onboarding, we’re now asking our employees right before the onboarding, you know, because that may offer work, so excited to have you there any accommodations that you may need. And through that new process I talked about earlier, we can ensure that we can start the process then. So the offer goes out, we can start your accommodation process at the same time. And so when you get here on day one, you have all that you need. So that was an update that we did there. And then from a development, retention, and separation perspective, we have an employee resource group that’s dedicated for folks with disabilities, but we have eight others as well. So no matter kind of what lens of diversity, you’re coming to it or ally ship, you have an opportunity for development in that space. We also have been, you know, having inclusive manager and leadership training to ensure that people understand what that looks like and what the behaviors are, we have core values, one of the first ones is people first, and excellence. And so we want to make sure that our people are really coming into the workplace with the highest and most utmost respect for each other, to get the work done, again, to solve the nation’s hardest problems and to really execute on our mission. And then from the retention and separation piece is you know, letting folks know, if folks, you know, choose to go down another path is that, you know, we want to make sure that they are well taken care of. And so from an onboarding perspective, I know our talent team reaches out in his exit interviews and kind of just put things together with a bow as folks are starting to leave, but making sure that they have all that they need prior to their actual exit. So when you’re thinking about accessibility from kind of attraction to separation, you want to make sure that you just have the ability to meet your employees for where they need have the flexibility and the agility to get them what they need. And then to just really do it, there aren’t a lot of a lot of red tape or things that would inhibit an accommodation to be made. Most, if not 50%, cost $0. And then the other 50%, I believe, is like a little under 500 from an average perspective. And so we want to make sure that folks throughout the entire process, it’s feel seen and heard, and again, have that dialogue to not feel ashamed, or we are trying to destigmatize kind of anything that you may need, even from a mental health perspective, we just did a Mental Health First Aid training on last week. And really just even making sure that folks feel comfortable kind of sharing what they feel comfortable sharing in that regard to get the accommodations and space that they need to be able to execute against what they have to do as well. Yeah,
JM 28:42 I like that you were talking about? You know, I agree that I still think that the word accommodation, sometimes it is stigmatized, so I wanted to ask you, if you had like, just like what are some like the most common accommodations that you’ve run across? Because when I asked this question, it’s usually not as crazy as people think.
AL 28:57 Yeah, and you know, this is handled by our talent team. And so while I helped drive the updated process, they’re the ones that kind of are the intake, but from my understanding, just kind of being the HR space, it’s really sometimes around lighting. And so we at Draper, we’ve put dimmers in some conference rooms. And then on the Ask was for us to make sure that we list the dimmers in the booking tool. So when people are booking the room and potentially suffer from migraines, or have you know, have a visual impairment and the light is too bright that they know, okay, let’s book this room, because I’ll be able to have the accommodation because we’re kind of under renovation. And so I think there’s an opportunity for everyone to be able to have a chance to see what’s there. But really, accommodations are for everyone. Like every single person has an accommodation on a day to day. Sometimes it’s just a you know, a raising desk so folks can stand up for their health. Sometimes it’s just one of those foot stools where folks can just have an opportunity to kind of pedal or put their feet up. And so it’s really, from my perspective, and I haven’t seen anything and I think That’s the only thing to that there is no huge accommodation I haven’t had anyone asked me to, you know, build them a building. And so I think when we as practitioners, and we’re hearing from our people, and we’re worried about finances, it’s really just kind of listening, making the time to budget accordingly and putting some dollars aside to meet your accommodation needs. But at the end of the day, it’s never something that has been astronomical, from my experience thus far. But when that happens, I’ll definitely let you know. I
JM 30:26 look forward to that. Thank you so much for you know, breaking that down. Because I think it’s true that, you know, I have run into where the people are thinking that it’s going to be something astronomical and like, no, it’s actually something that’s very doable. So I appreciate that that level of detail, given their lighting is interesting, because definitely run into things with fluorescent lighting. So interesting to discuss that can be discussed on a whole other podcast, but wanted to go back to employee lifecycle I know development and retention, get a lot of like attention. So I do want to give space for that here, like so my question for you. I know, you know, with your experience, what are some, like common obstacles you’re tuned into, for the employees during the development and retention phase? And so therefore, like, how are you implementing in your strategy, like how are giving access to those employees for like resources and tools and platforms that will help support them with those, you know, common obstacles that you’ve seen? Because I know those change throughout different phases of yours. So just curious about what you’ve run into? Yeah, I
AL 31:22 talked about it a little bit on the top of the call about, you know, thinking through how to get accommodation, right, so now it’s a ticket, and you can go in and have a conversation that goes to HR, and then they can kind of parse the workout to whomever has to order it. So if it’s a desk, they’ll give it to facilities to order the desk under the purview that they don’t need to know who’s it for Wyatt, for but you know, they’ll, they’ll help the HR team get it. And so that was one thing. The other thing that we think is extremely important is really having that community. So having our ability plus ERG Employee Resource Group has been vital to just know that we are funding that group, we give hours to that group, there’s opportunity for them to, you know, speak at any, we have leadership meetings once a quarter where they can share their insights. We also have ERG flags, where we put things out. And so when we’re thinking about all of the development and retention, we’re thinking about it and all the ways as far as community access to tools should be right on the front of the page, so they can find it. The other thing is just informing our managers, right. And so getting them up to speed, I want to say we have a little under 9% population that has reported. So it’s clearly probably a higher number, but it’s what people have said, that have disabilities. So we really need to get our managers to understand what those accommodations will look like, for them to be understanding and have the language to discuss topics that their employees might bring up to them. As we’re encouraging more psychological safety and open dialogue, people need to be equipped with the skills to be able to have those conversations. So I think from a retention perspective, when you have the ecosystem and the people who know how to do that well, and know that that’s a focus point for the company, people are going to want to stay within, you know, a safe space that hears them sees them as constantly working on it, versus potentially going to someplace new who could treat you like a number. So I think those are really important. And in the last thing about the tools is really working towards having a tech kind of fed ramped approved a worksite, or like an app store, if you will, where people can just get what they need. And maybe not even have to go through an accommodations form, right? Like just get what you need and move on, much like we do for a lot of other things. And so that’s, that’s the utopia. That’s the place that we’re going to try to get to, but I have been honest with my employees and the folks on my team have, we’re getting there one day at a time. But I think it’s also helpful to be transparent about where folks are and what they’re doing to address kind of the gaps that they see in you know, how long it will take to get them close.
JM 33:46 Wow, that’s like so interesting to discuss, like, you know, this almost like App Store, where they can get the things that they need, because I know forms just feels like scary to some. So that’s so interesting to even consider that. So that’s, that’s really awesome to hear. I just wanted to acknowledge a lot of the responses you’ve given me, I just really appreciate how like, you can see how the pathway is already embedded in the everyday systems. And and especially how you’re utilizing data and also like you know, the the findings that you’re finding to build upon your strategy. So continue that in your answer. So thank you so much for, for explaining everything today. I have a couple more questions here. I am going to start switching gears to just like talking to the DI practitioners out there and the leaders. So this might be a big ask you decide how you want to answer it. But I have heard before where individuals who are in di partitioning roles, when they’re given access to success, there’s like so much that they can do and I think that’s really important to discuss. So with that, again, big ask but if you could list three points of access that are imperative for di practitioners to have to succeed in their roles, what would they be,
AL 34:51 I would say executive leadership support, financial resources and employee resources and So you can have two of the three, or you can have one of the three, but I find that all three are needed for a strategy to be executed well, and for the organization to get the outcomes they’re looking for. When you sometimes have, you know, you’ll have a team and you’ll have leadership buying, but you don’t have the funding to do to build the accessibility tool or to bring in the speakers or the trainings that are necessary, then your strategy won’t fall, or your strategy will fall a bit short, if you have the dollars, but and you have the team, but you don’t have executive leadership support, there’s a miss there where you might not be able to execute against what you want, because you have a lot of folks questioning what you’re doing. And so I can go through all the different ways, but I find that if you have all of those things, those are, those are the magical things that you can move forward with. Because if you have your whole team’s buying, you have leadership there, you have the money to execute against what you need, and then you have the people alongside you to execute it, then, you know, that’s where we start to see the progress. And I think over the last three years, we a lot of folks were given one or two, and not necessarily all three. And it made it hard for I think practitioners to be able to be successful. Love that.
JM 36:08 Thank you. I love how tangible that was. Okay, this next question is for the leaders and managers. So how about for them? What are and because I think that leaders and managers, they really make or break the company organization, right? They’re the people that is why entry level people come in and stay a lot of the time. So for them, what would be three points of access that are imperative for them to succeed?
AL 36:29 When I think about managers, their three biggest points would be being active listeners, right thinking through what their employees need, buying into the idea of strategy. So even though executive leadership might be all, you know, onboard, the chief diversity officer has given them the money, the managers on the ground, or in the middle are the ones that have to drive it to completion have to make it tangible for our folks. And so while people have different thoughts, I think there has to be a level of open mindedness of why this is happening. And trust, much like you would trust the CFO to balance the books, trust the CDO on the strategies they’re putting in place for an inclusive workforce. And go ahead and work against that, definitely ask questions, get a better understanding of I think that’s a huge part of it. And then encourage your people to participate in the ecosystem that we’ve created. So if there’s opportunities for folks to go to trainings, or to go to conferences, or join an employee resource group, or business resource group, or affinity group or whatever, you know, your organization that has being a manager that always has openness, or an inclusive lens for people to go ahead and enjoy or, or expand or explore the organization, not only from that perspective, or even from an internal mobility perspective, having people think about other roles, I think is a huge part about that openness for a people manager to have, as people want to stay, we think about retention, one of my favorite companies I’ve ever worked at had three different roles. And that was just through an internal mobility, opportunity for access, looking about transferable skills. And I think that’s a huge part of the idea strategies that people love to stay in one place that they can continue to grow and never feel, you know, stagnant. And so that was something that I would share with the leaders and managers outside of the executive suite to really enable an idea strategy for success.
JM 38:11 Yes, I love that. So true. When you’re saying that, you know, someone likes to stay somewhere they can grow, not stay stagnant, stagnant, definitely can understand that. All right. So for our last question here, What does an inclusive workplace look like to you? Oh,
AL 38:25 that was such a great question. And I struggle with that, but really, it’s, you know, to, from a high level, people look forward to coming into work, they feel respected, and they have all the tools that they need. And that is what I that’s what I’m working forward towards each day. So when you think about a tangible thing, if I’m in a meeting, is the person facilitating the meeting, getting equity in voice? Are they asking everyone, if they have anything to add? Are they being attuned to kind of the dynamics? Are they being conflict resolution, focus, instead of kind of having, you know, factions of people, one against the other, right, like having people come together as a team, I think, an inclusive work culture is where you come in, and you know, you’ll have conflict or you’ll have debate or conversation, but knowing after that moment, we’re getting right back to the flow of things. And it’s not becoming toxic, or a place where people feel excluded or taken out of the conversation. So an inclusive workplace is that kind of meeting or thought process open to new ideas, but then also the accessibility places that you can get into your workplace that you’re not faced with, you know, curb cuts that aren’t proper or doors that are open or you’re unable to swipe through or things aren’t fit just due to the age of building what have you just really making sure that every place has accessibility, even from a gender perspective as their gender neutral places for showering or for for bathrooms, and so really, that whole kind of ecosystem. If you have a new parent, do they have a lactation space like all of those things are inclusive workplaces People come into work, they can bring it I know I’m using air quotes, you can’t see me, their whole selves to work, but really feel supported to do what they have to do. That’s going to take them in and out of the building, right. So they’re there for eight to nine hours, but there’s a bunch of other hours that they’re spent outside and things kind of commingle within those times. I’m really making sure that people have the autonomy, the flexibility and the respect to to know that they can do whatever they need to get done. Within that workspace.
JM 40:25 I love that you painted a really great picture there. And I I also really appreciated what you said about being able to have conflict and resolve that conflict and be able to go back to things after that, you know, that’s an A talking about accessibility and tools. So love that picture that you’ve painted for us today. And just want to thank you again, so much for being here, Aisha, so many awesome points you brought here, I think I’m gonna listen to this conversation a couple of times, because you dropped a lot of really good nuggets. So thank you again,
AL 40:50 oh, thank you so much for the invitation has been a pleasure working alongside you and your team and to kind of just have this conversation that to share. I think there’s so many practitioners and folks within the space that could benefit from this conversation. And it’s really nice to kind of talk things out as a community. So thank you again.
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